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Author Topic: General Suggestions and Food for Thought  (Read 3718 times)

dgchessman2

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General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« on: December 29, 2021, 03:07:44 PM »

A few points, all offered from a purely enthusiastic point of view.  Starsector rocks, and I want to see it keep rocking!

**EDIT**  To be clear!  If you're perfectly happy with how the game is, and/or the Dev is perfectly pleased with how the game is please disregard!!  All of this feedback is under the assumption that the 'Suggestions' forum is for... making suggestions?  About things that the game currently isn't?  Or doesn't seem to be doing well.

Weapon Standardization -
Right now a lot of weapons follow the general 'template', which rocks.  BUT!  As modded content comes out, including content that expands on the Common category of weapons, it gets harder to keep track of what is being offered.  This is as it should be in a busy universe!  However, I noticed that a few categories are blatantly missing, especially for role-bending weapons.  None of these are required/demanded/etc, but it seems to me that it would be the sort of changes you'd see in a transition from a more Beta build, to something 1.0 or 1.1
  • Projectile speed for everything but missiles
  • Interaction between mods and adjustments they make to weapon range and firing speed
  • Projectile pattern/color/shape
  • Adjustment to text sizes/colors/organization
  • In a magical world, a small window showing the weapon being used!
  • In an even more magical world, the ability to flag or favorite weapons
  • A more clear designation of the Faction offering the weapon (or the mod adding it for 'Common' stuffs

Map and Intel -
Which is which?  I mean... really.  The intel screen oftentimes presents things that are just odd flags on your map.  Your map screen, which is for navigation, lacks the majority of the things it needs to help you navigate.  And the transition between Local Map, Intel Map, and Universe Map only REALLY works if you've got a hand resting on the keyboard, and the ingrained reflexes to remember to push certain buttons at certain times.  That's just.... well.... poor UI implementation.
  • There's a LOT of the Intel Screen that honestly should go somewhere more like the Faction screen... which is just full of descriptions, legalities, and the only thing I use it for, the current Relationship.  If they're sending off a colony fleet, you know about a raid they're making, etc.. basically the whole bottom color coded section could be merged into that.  If I really need to know what the Pirates are doing... I'll see a marker on my map, and it'll take me to the Faction Details bit, which should show me a lot more than it does.
  • The interaction between Navigation and Missions just falls flat.  I need to see my current Mission.  I need to be able to skip to my destination's map quickly. I need to be able to choose a new mission from a list that is accessible.  And, in a magical world, I should be able to set a SECOND mission
  • While on that topic:  Waypoints.  That should go without saying.  There's a big ol' universe, and waypoints help
  • Speaking of waypoints!  Player created map markers!  'Oh no!  I'm out of fuel!  I swear I've got an outpost set up somewhere.....'.  I notice this even more acutely when I compare to playing other space/strategy games

Let there be mouse support!  And key mapping! And video settings!-
Yeah, I said it.  Because it's 2021 now, and you basically have to pay extra for a mouse that doesn't have more than 4 buttons, scroll wheels often have side-click buttons, on top of thumb buttons, and that's not even getting into keyboards!  And frankly... the UI needs it.  Badly.  Really badly.  The transitions between text/keyboard interaction and mouse interaction is abrupt and constant.  The lack of basic controls that you'd expect in any management game is pretty intense.. and the same goes for compatible video settings.  There's just a HUGE gaping hole where a lot of standard, basic player UI is supposed to go.
  • First and foremost!  Let there be key mapping! (Yes, I've seen it explained that it's a Java thing.  That's it's own separate can of worms)
  • This is ESPECIALLY useful in the UI, as you can use Forward and Back navigation, like webpages, to move between previous menus
  • Things like 'move all', 'take all', and 'sort by type' need implementation in a bunch of places.  That's not quite keymapping, but it's keys that are LACKING
  • There's been a lot of attempts to implement modded workarounds, but all I've seen rely on designating a certain key to open up a menu, etc.  The entire necessity/restriction of that needs attention
  • Speaking of mission functions... I'd like to communicate with my faction, please.  And other factions.  With a communicator.  One that isn't a nested text menu.  Because Diplomacy, and Management
  • Video settings speak for themselves
  • All of the throttle settings are just that... a throttle.  Linear.  So please skip the individual buttons, and put them on a designated throttle!  Stealth/Slow ; Normal/Careful ; Cruise/Fast ; Emergency/GTFO

Economy and Supplies -
This one is complicated.  Really complicated.  Right now it puts an overly heavy focus on Supplies.  A solution would have to be carefully crafted and tested by somebody who was good at what they do... not just whipped out in an afternoon, or tasked to somebody.  But SO much of the STORY of the game relies on Supplies.  Any sort of RPG element RELIES on them, or money.  I think there needs to be nuance to that overly simplistic system.  MAYBE I don't want to deal with supplies, so I fly Low Tech.  Or maybe I don't mind resupplying laser mirrors on a regular basis, and I fly High Tech instead.  Maybe I'm being chased, and I have the bigger fleet, plenty of food, plenty of troops...... but somehow we managed to run out of generic, small caliber ammo.  We've got NO Point Defense worth mentioning!  Suddenly, there's a story to tell.  Something new to experience.  Not just another Fleet battle on fast forward.
  • Where are my Trade Goods at?!?  I mean the REALLY unique stuff that paints a giant target on your ship.  The kinda stuff nations will break treaties to acquire
  • What is Food?  And Organics?  To be frank, the entire process of balancing the needs of colonies is opaque.  Why is a Supply not a food?  Why is an Organic not a Fuel?
  • I NEED the goods from ONE colony inventory (not MY inventory) to be in another location, often in the same system.  Yes, there is some auto-transport... but the colony NEEDS it.  Fast
  • I can't sell things to my own faction?!  Even things they NEED?  I can deposit them for use... but that stuff is expensive!!
  • What are Supplies, really?  Legit question!  We use them to deploy ships... deploy troops... as upkeep... and we lose battle readiness and morale if we don't have them.  It's clearly not just food, or ammo...
  • I can't help but see where the vague nature of Supplies dips its fingers into other areas.  My ships are fed, fueled, manned, and armed..... with everything except power cells.  Oh, wait, there are none
  • Even if it was as simple as Missile Ammo, Basic Ammo, Heavy Ammo, Exotic Ammo, Power Packs... or whatever.  BUT!  Even if you could make that happen......
  • ......The AI simply doesn't follow the same rules players do.  Supply use.  Upkeep.  Crew.  And while this isn't critical to have in all ways... in shows in a lot of small things
  • In an ideal world?  A simple UI should show you fleet supplies.  Those needed.  Those acquired.  Special stuffs.  And most important.... Fleet Ships that provide them!
  • Some repairs you can't patch with Supplies.  It just NEEDS a drydock.
  • There's probably a good example floating around there that can be both in-depth, as well as simple to use.  But the coverall of 'Supplies' just gets weeeiiiirrddd the bigger your Fleet gets
  • Upkeep, Deployment Points, Fleet Sizes, etc. all need a hard look.  Both from the UI standpoint, as well as an AI standpoint

Time is never on your side -
Or, at least I think, it should be on your side.  But that can ALSO be a good thing!  WHY is dropping several hundred surveyors into a soupy gas giant and mapping it carefully so.... nerfed??
  • Surveys ought to take time.  Especially when you're being chased, or in a hostile area.  >_>  I've gamed that system as much as anyone... and it always feels a little dirty
  • The immediacy of a LOT of actions is pretty... painful.  Repairs.  Invasions.  (though ground actions over several days is an awesome start!!)
  • Because of these removal of TIME as a factor, it's instead simplified into Supplies.  This theme comes up over and over again.  Just... take more supplies for a bit  **waves vaguely**
  • Survey prices are GARBAGE.  Completely and utterly.  And WHY map them at all?!?  If you were going to settle there... you'll know all there is to know.  That only leaves Habitable status (which you can get from a wide scan) and looting ruins.  A dedicated survey (even of an inhabited planet!) should have immense value, and take immense time.  As a fighter pilot you don't care, but as a Fleet Admiral or Faction Leader, you absolutely do!
  • Heavy reliance on Fetch Quests gets quests ignored.  If everything is a variation of 'Go there and get/scan/kill, then return' you stop doing them at all, or only do them when desperate or convenient
  • Time is one of the MOST important aspects of any good RPG, and the use of it could EASILY stretch over almost all of Starsector.  It's a lot of WRITING, I know... but having ENCOUNTERS that you didn't necessarily seek out, and that don't end only with a battle or the use of a skill point would really, really put flesh on the otherwise sturdy bones
  • I want to run out of things.  Little and big things.  Things that I'll have to go out of my way to acquire/maintain.  Like the fuel for my planet-cracking laser!  I can only refuel it in one spot!
  • While some of these are a bit thematic, and all of them represent (ironically) time on the part of Development... we're still dealing with Covid!  People HAVE time!

Standardizwhaaaaat...?? -
Standardization if your friend.  Yes, I know that a player easily editing files is a hallmark of Starsector.  But that MEANS that a video of somebody playing Starsector loses its thrill value.  It may be PRETTY, but the observer has no way to judge the DIFFICULTY or skill involved.  And impressive videos of giant space battles... well... that's just money in the bank right there.
So please, please please please standardize!  It doesn't have to be EAC where NOTHING can be TOUCHED.  But there is an Official List of mods, and someday there's gonna be an Official List on one platform or another like Steam.
  • Please, please take the time to call out and 'rate' mods that are important, and especially ones that are close to the vanilla baseline
  • If you can judge the 'difficulty' of a fleet, you can judge the game difficulty, and/or the changes to difficulty that one faction or another is going to bring
  • Why bother?  Because mods are EFFORT and TIME.  They are THERE to be tapped-into... if you can standardize how you judge/weigh/utilize them
  • Official Mods are sexy
  • Because Official Mods are sexy, those that don't quite meet the muster will try to angle towards approval, thus bringing the modded version of starsector more in tune with the vanilla version
  • Yes, somebody would need to actually take the TIME to do this!  And, yes, that's a part of doing business.  HIRE SOMEBODY!
  • Hire somebody JUST to do UI.  Hire somebody just to work on Standardizations and Continuity.  Hire somebody to begin the transition from Java to... something else.
  • Hire them because people are bored and want to help.  Hire them because there's a lot of skill out there still in quarantine.  Hire them because Starsector really, really needs groundswell

Story Points?  Hells yes! -
The Story point system is fantastic!  Seriously  ^_^  But the Skill Point system is beyond bare bones!
  • A single point/skill for administrators?!
  • Special Agents that still exist purely as text?
  • Wait... Diplomats aren't Vanilla?!?
  • Well, if they're mad at me I should just contact them and expl.... wait...... I can't contact them?!?  At ALL?
  • Skill Points are supposed to mean Skill Checks, and Skill Checks are VASTLY superior to Fetch Quests

Fractal Software 2.0 -
I was writing about this in a previous response, and got a lot of flak.  That bummed me out for a whole variety of reasons... there was Gatekeeping going on, lots of condescending opinions flying, and a generally sort of... confrontational atmosphere.  Even with folks being downright aggressive... the topic was locked rather than warning or dealing with any of the bad behavior.  The whole process of exchanging ideas was just... cut off.  And I've seen this before, in many games.  It's not a unique problem.
  • I want Fractal Software to succeed.  And I mean success beyond its current success
  • The trajectory of the company, and as a result the game, has been sort of... coasting.  Indie development, private sales, lots of players playing the game on a multimeter.. and want it to stay that way
  • MAYBE that's how it should be.  Maybe that's all that's wanted.  BUT!  I look at the genre, and I look at the competition, and I see Starsector as the strong leader of the pack.  For now
  • It won't stay that way.  So.... Fractal Software 2.0, maybe?
  • Hire employees.  Get a development and update schedule.  Take a note from the Trese Brothers, and start updating OFTEN.  Get a social media presence, so that people SEE those updates.  (Two brother dev team, they updated one of their Steam games something like 110 times in a year... and it's become a sort of bragging point)
  • None of these mean taking Starsector 'in a new direction', but rather a different trajectory.  The game itself is GOLDEN.  The heartbeat of the game is... steady, but faint
  • Maybe Starsector makes its way to one of the big platforms.  Maybe it doesn't.  But without trajectory, it'll just get gobbled up and lost in the noise
  • So!  Make noise

Why mention any of this? -
'Cause I want to see Starsector THRIVE!  I'm not biting my nails for multiplayer, or demanding it be released on console, or any other silliness from folks who simply don't know better.  I want to see Starsector move away from the gradual, steady drip of development... and hit the Emergency Booster instead.

I won't wither up and die if development keeps going like this... but it seems like a lost opportunity.

But hey, I'm not a doctor, I just play one on TV.  But I DID sleep in a Holiday Inn... so I thought I'd take the time to write it all out.

Thank you for attending my Ted Talk
« Last Edit: December 29, 2021, 03:45:58 PM by dgchessman2 »
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Thaago

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2021, 04:01:23 PM »

Enough of that please. People should restrict themselves to talking about the suggestions. Anything further will be treated as topic derailment/toxicity and warnings/bans given.

I agree on the map and intel screens - I find myself flicking back and forth frequently and even with keyboard commands its awkward. I think a unified map/intel would be very good (maybe the intel screen can have a 'large map mode' or something where the map expands to fill the whole screen, if real estate is a concern).

Re: Keybindings: It's not a Java thing. Almost nothing is a Java thing, including the issue of various AMD graphics cards having poor performance with the game - thats an OpenGL problem. Java is a fully functional modern programming language that can do literally anything: its just a question of programming style/architecture/performance, and none of those really matter for things like keybinding or UI (there is a real discussion to be had about AI routine efficiency, especially for n^2 or higher checks, in java vs compiled languages, but thats an entire different can of worms). On the one hand I don't think completely remappable keybindings are that bad of a thing, but I also don't see why they are that good of a thing except outside of edge cases, and it would cost dev time.

Re: Economy/Supplies: I would detest needing to manage many different types of supplies to keep a fleet running. In my opinion the only not-headache/awful way to deal with it would be to buy prebundled packs containing all the proper ratios needed to keep a fleet running, and then a "fill to balance" button to make up for issues like one type of supply being consumed more than others do to usage. We could call those prebundled pack "Supplies".

Re: Timers. We had them for many of the same reasons you've proposed, but they didn't work out. Basically it just leads to boring gameplay: go to place, do menu option, press shift, go to next place. Its not any more exciting, but it takes longer: the current system of "you can't do it while a hostile fleet is chasing you" has the same end result, only is faster and less frustrating. I don't think this is in principle a bad idea, but it just didn't work.

Mod Standardization/rating by FractalSoftworks: Please no. Having it be hard for players to tell at a glance if a youtube streamer is actually skilled at the game is just... not a concern compared to the utter storm of insanity that this would cause.

Re: FS2:
Leaving aside the technical misunderstandings: more updates =/= better (an update every 3 days sounds absolutely awful and a good way to break mods too fast for an ecosystem to develop). A bigger team =/= better (and going by modern game development trends, its actually pretty clear that a bigger team is worse). And, most importantly: Alex in his current working mode, with his current team, is creating a really good game, and he's the one in charge. If he doesn't want to expand to a bigger team, well why should he? I have absolutely no idea what the sales numbers are after the recent surges from reviews, but I'm going to bet on 'better than enough' to keep going as its going.
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Ruddygreat

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2021, 04:10:57 PM »

quoted from OP, with probably too-snarky editor's notes
Spoiler
A few points, all offered from a purely enthusiastic point of view.  Starsector rocks, and I want to see it keep rocking!

Weapon Standardization -
Right now a lot of weapons follow the general 'template', which rocks.  BUT!  As modded content comes out, including content that expands on the Common category of weapons, it gets harder to keep track of what is being offered.  This is as it should be in a busy universe!  However, I noticed that a few categories are blatantly missing, especially for role-bending weapons.  None of these are required/demanded/etc, but it seems to me that it would be the sort of changes you'd see in a transition from a more Beta build, to something 1.0 or 1.1
  • Projectile speed for everything but missiles
  • Interaction between mods and adjustments they make to weapon range and firing speed
  • Projectile pattern/color/shape
  • Adjustment to text sizes/colors/organization
  • In a magical world, a small window showing the weapon being used!
  • In an even more magical world, the ability to flag or favorite weapons
  • A more clear designation of the Faction offering the weapon (or the mod adding it for 'Common' stuffs

Map and Intel -
Which is which?  I mean... really.  The intel screen oftentimes presents things that are just odd flags on your map.  Your map screen, which is for navigation, lacks the majority of the things it needs to help you navigate.  And the transition between Local Map, Intel Map, and Universe Map only REALLY works if you've got a hand resting on the keyboard, and the ingrained reflexes to remember to push certain buttons at certain times.  That's just.... well.... poor UI implementation.
  • There's a LOT of the Intel Screen that honestly should go somewhere more like the Faction screen... which is just full of descriptions, legalities, and the only thing I use it for, the current Relationship.  If they're sending off a colony fleet, you know about a raid they're making, etc.. basically the whole bottom color coded section could be merged into that.  If I really need to know what the Pirates are doing... I'll see a marker on my map, and it'll take me to the Faction Details bit, which should show me a lot more than it does.
  • The interaction between Navigation and Missions just falls flat.  I need to see my current Mission.  I need to be able to skip to my destination's map quickly. I need to be able to choose a new mission from a list that is accessible.  And, in a magical world, I should be able to set a SECOND mission
  • While on that topic:  Waypoints.  That should go without saying.  There's a big ol' universe, and waypoints help
  • Speaking of waypoints!  Player created map markers!  'Oh no!  I'm out of fuel!  I swear I've got an outpost set up somewhere.....'.  I notice this even more acutely when I compare to playing other space/strategy games

Let there be mouse support!  And key mapping! And video settings!-
Yeah, I said it.  Because it's 2021 now, and you basically have to pay extra for a mouse that doesn't have more than 4 buttons, scroll wheels often have side-click buttons, on top of thumb buttons, and that's not even getting into keyboards!  And frankly... the UI needs it.  Badly.  Really badly.  The transitions between text/keyboard interaction and mouse interaction is abrupt and constant.  The lack of basic controls that you'd expect in any management game is pretty intense.. and the same goes for compatible video settings.  There's just a HUGE gaping hole where a lot of standard, basic player UI is supposed to go.
  • First and foremost!  Let there be key mapping! (Yes, I've seen it explained that it's a Java thing.  That's it's own separate can of worms)
  • This is ESPECIALLY useful in the UI, as you can use Forward and Back navigation, like webpages, to move between previous menus
  • Things like 'move all', 'take all', and 'sort by type' need implementation in a bunch of places.  That's not quite keymapping, but it's keys that are LACKING
  • There's been a lot of attempts to implement modded workarounds, but all I've seen rely on designating a certain key to open up a menu, etc.  The entire necessity/restriction of that needs attention
  • Speaking of mission functions... I'd like to communicate with my faction, please.  And other factions.  With a communicator.  One that isn't a nested text menu.  Because Diplomacy, and Management
  • Video settings speak for themselves
  • All of the throttle settings are just that... a throttle.  Linear.  So please skip the individual buttons, and put them on a designated throttle!  Stealth/Slow ; Normal/Careful ; Cruise/Fast ; Emergency/GTFO

Economy and Supplies -

<editor's note - mostly irrelevant to the game, if you want realism for realism's sake go play rimworld or w/e>

Time is never on your side -
Or, at least I think, it should be on your side.  But that can ALSO be a good thing!  WHY is dropping several hundred surveyors into a soupy gas giant and mapping it carefully so.... nerfed??
  • Surveys ought to take time.  Especially when you're being chased, or in a hostile area.  >_>  I've gamed that system as much as anyone... and it always feels a little dirty
  • The immediacy of a LOT of actions is pretty... painful.  Repairs.  Invasions.  (though ground actions over several days is an awesome start!!)
  • Because of these removal of TIME as a factor, it's instead simplified into Supplies.  This theme comes up over and over again.  Just... take more supplies for a bit  **waves vaguely**
  • Survey prices are GARBAGE.  Completely and utterly.  And WHY map them at all?!?  If you were going to settle there... you'll know all there is to know.  That only leaves Habitable status (which you can get from a wide scan) and looting ruins.  A dedicated survey (even of an inhabited planet!) should have immense value, and take immense time.  As a fighter pilot you don't care, but as a Fleet Admiral or Faction Leader, you absolutely do!
  • Heavy reliance on Fetch Quests gets quests ignored.  If everything is a variation of 'Go there and get/scan/kill, then return' you stop doing them at all, or only do them when desperate or convenient
  • Time is one of the MOST important aspects of any good RPG, and the use of it could EASILY stretch over almost all of Starsector.  It's a lot of WRITING, I know... but having ENCOUNTERS that you didn't necessarily seek out, and that don't end only with a battle or the use of a skill point would really, really put flesh on the otherwise sturdy bones
  • I want to run out of things.  Little and big things.  Things that I'll have to go out of my way to acquire/maintain.  Like the fuel for my planet-cracking laser!  I can only refuel it in one spot!
  • While some of these are a bit thematic, and all of them represent (ironically) time on the part of Development... we're still dealing with Covid!  People HAVE time!

<editor's note - everything after this point is irrelevant drivel>

[close]
gonna engage with you seriously because sorting through your word salad you do have a few unironically good points -
  • projectile speed should be included in every weapon's statcard, it can be a vital part of a weapon's balance
  • waypoints are a good idea imo, and much more needed w/ slipstreams (so you can plot a course around sreams that might inconvenience you)
  • extra control stuff would be nice, but that's an incredibly minor thing
  • and some more special goods outside of lobsters could be neat (maybe luddic furniture / filkenhild holos?)
ngl these are more for alex if he reads this thread

but the rest are mostly irreleant / would (imo) take away from the game as a whole - managing more types of supplies wouldn't make the game more interesting / immersive / complex, they'd just make bouncing between planets trying to buy stuff for cheap even more tedious (or if they didn't you'd just be buying all the stuff in the same place as the old supplies which is the same as the current situation, just bloated)

(had a whole rant about the extra stuff in here but thaago put it better than I could (especially the more updates stuff - the idea that more updates = better is just wrong (and seriously how many of those guys updates were more than "fixed a bug"))

dgchessman2

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2021, 04:11:58 PM »


Re: Economy/Supplies: I would detest needing to manage many different types of supplies to keep a fleet running. In my opinion the only not-headache/awful way to deal with it would be to buy prebundled packs containing all the proper ratios needed to keep a fleet running, and then a "fill to balance" button to make up for issues like one type of supply being consumed more than others do to usage. We could call those prebundled pack "Supplies".

We do have 'Charges' that have a timed regeneration... it just doesn't carry from battle to battle.  Just spitballing... but if you rough-draft that system into something that stretches between battles too, you suddenly have a more robust, reflective system.  NOW!  Maybe arcade-style is just fine here.  ^_^  That very well may be!

There's just this part in my gut that is reaching for something to TUG on the player.  Demand their attention.  Not because it's required, or another battle, or even necessarily micromanagement.  But something that gets added reflexively to the shopping list.

(again, spitballing)
Low Tech uses... dunno... ship parts
Scrap tech literally uses just metal
Mid Tech uses Supplies?
High tech uses Exotic Parts
And REDACTED or similar uses Domain, or other rare bits.

NOT as a total replacement for Supplies!  But as a scoop out of the Supplies For Battle concept, and instead be able to twist the story a bit!

Sorta like having a bunch of Marines on board, and nowhere to deploy them.

"I've got a dozen ships, so much fuel I'm dumping it, plus food and supplies for 3 years..... but that isn't going to get me any more cyclonic torpedoes, and I NEED those torpedoes!"
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dgchessman2

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2021, 04:19:30 PM »

but the rest are mostly irreleant / would (imo) take away from the game as a whole - managing more types of supplies wouldn't make the game more interesting / immersive / complex, they'd just make bouncing between planets trying to buy stuff for cheap even more tedious (or if they didn't you'd just be buying all the stuff in the same place as the old supplies which is the same as the current situation, just bloated)
I totally get that's the immediate gut instinct.  But having supplies be less of a cover-all doesn't NECESSITATE complexity.
It's just suggesting another bar next to the 3 bars we've got for supplies, fuel, and crew
Having Marines that only do certain tasks, and that you have to go looking for doesn't bloat the game... it serves a specific purpose.

(had a whole rant about the extra stuff in here but thaago put it better than I could (especially the more updates stuff - the idea that more updates = better is just wrong (and seriously how many of those guys updates were more than "fixed a bug"))
Seriously?  Maybe 1 in 3 was a bug fix post.
I'm not suggesting to KNOW how they do the weird magic that they do, but it's IMPRESSIVE.
Not only is it impressive, but it builds up a credibility that money can't buy.
They took that credibility and went and spent it on a Kickstarter.  They're 3rd or 4th now?  All have been a success.
BECAUSE a steady work schedule doesn't have to be fluff.
Oxygen Not Included has a little goofy graphic that shows you when the next SCHEDULED update is.  That builds credibility, AND gives modders time to adjust.
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lovhes

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2021, 04:21:23 PM »

i'm pretty sure at least a quarter, if not half of the point you're talking is already in the game. Like what is food, what is organics. You probably would want to start reading every tooltip that appear if you want to know what is what for commodities. Permanent damage that can't be fixed by supplies alone, yeah we have that, it's called D-mods.

On resource abstractions.... why is that even a problem. Starsector at its core is a game about blowing up other ships in combat, or avoiding it i guess. i don't want extreme banal realism like needing to keep a stock of food, metal, heavy machinery, and whatever other crap that would make logistic a bigger pain to keep track off when you want to explode enemy ships or going around. If i want logistic pain train, i would play other games...

On the ship weapons needing more information fields so we can know more stuff about them, like bullet speed and whatnot... fair point, but if it listed too many details, it would be cluttered. That said, i do want more details but i'm not sure if that will make a better game.

Faster update schedule also means bigger annoyance to the modding community and people having a slow burn run though? So i'm not sure faster update means better. The devs seems to be happy going at their own pace anyway.

On game mod content: why should the dev standardize them? Quality of mods is subjective, endorsing any of them would make people just see those.


i am not sure you really do want this game to succeed if you don't even bother to know the game properly. To me you sound like someone trying to steer the game to... some vision you have? Maybe it will make the game better, but i doubt it.
But the point is that you sound like someone who want starsector catered to your want and not wanting starsector to succeed. Though as Ruddygreat mentioned below, some of your suggestions... do have merit
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tomatopaste

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2021, 04:23:00 PM »

  • In a magical world, a small window showing the weapon being used!

Yes please this would be extremely cool. On the technical side, it seems straightforward to achieve; instance combat engine -> render to a window texture -> spawn suitable display ship with a dummy AI and zoom in on weapon firing
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Yunru

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2021, 04:28:55 PM »

Fine, benefit of the doubt and all that.

Projectile speed for everything but missiles
Interaction between mods and adjustments they make to weapon range and firing speed
These are both valid points, provided that by mods you mean hullmods.
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Projectile pattern/color/shape
Why?
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Adjustment to text sizes/colors/organization
Why?
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In a magical world, a small window showing the weapon being used!
Okay.
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In an even more magical world, the ability to flag or favorite weapons
Sounds interesting. Favourite has a U in it.
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A more clear designation of the Faction offering the weapon (or the mod adding it for 'Common' stuffs
There aren't any Faction-specific weapons outside of the mod scene, and the mod scene tends to already do this.

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Which is which?  I mean... really.
The map is the one where you can toggle things like constellation names, and displaying how explored a system is.

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The interaction between Navigation and Missions just falls flat.  I need to see my current Mission.  I need to be able to skip to my destination's map quickly. I need to be able to choose a new mission from a list that is accessible.  And, in a magical world, I should be able to set a SECOND mission
You can take as many missions as you like?

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Speaking of mission functions... I'd like to communicate with my faction, please.  And other factions.  With a communicator.  One that isn't a nested text menu.  Because Diplomacy, and Management
So you want what? A text-to-speech to be integrated into the game? Fully voiced lines for both the players and NPCs?
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Video settings speak for themselves
They don't, and thus you've said nothing here.

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Where are my Trade Goods at?!?  I mean the REALLY unique stuff that paints a giant target on your ship.  The kinda stuff nations will break treaties to acquire
Trade goods are the exact opposite of really unique stuff, by definition.
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What is Food?
It is food.
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And Organics?
Non-food organics.
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Why is a Supply not a food?
Because ships don't eat. 
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Why is an Organic not a Fuel?
Because anti-matter engines can't run on coal.
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I NEED the goods from ONE colony inventory (not MY inventory) to be in another location, often in the same system.  Yes, there is some auto-transport... but the colony NEEDS it.  Fast
If one colony can actually supply it, the others already have it (barring disruptions).
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What are Supplies, really?
They are supplies, you- You know what, just read their description.
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In an ideal world?  A simple UI should show you fleet supplies.  Those needed.  Those acquired.  Special stuffs.
Press I.
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Some repairs you can't patch with Supplies.  It just NEEDS a drydock.
D-Mods say hello.

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Standardizwhaaaaat...?? -
No, to basically everything you had to say here. Everything written in this section is conjecture dressed up as authority of knowledge.

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Fractal Software 2.0 -
If you want answers to this, they're still there in the old thread.
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Why mention any of this? -
'Cause I want to see Starsector THRIVE!
Don't worry it is. Unfortunately, a large portion of your suggestions would all but guarantee it's death. So yeah, if you want it to THRIVE!, try listening to it's audience, rather than denounce them as hostile and gatekeeping.

Thaago

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2021, 04:30:55 PM »

Re: more types of supplies etc

I think that kind of thing could be good in a survival type game: a lost fleet needing to get home, or a scrappy raider fleet out beyond resupply, etc. And then those shortages drive the player to look for specific resources (raid THAT faction for torpedoes etc) or do specific questlines to address the survival situation. But the value of the complexity and extra player time spent dealing with more resource types needs to be tied to a gameplay payoff (quests, achievement in resolving, considerations during combat in conserving limited use super items, etc).

But I don't think Starsector is really that game - it has a lot of hats (smuggling, fleet command, colonization, exploration) but not really survival. It just doesn't fit the theme considering that the core worlds are right there and the player has many sources of income. I think this could make a really interesting total conversion mod (that would take a TON of work).

...

i am not sure you really do want this game to succeed if you don't even bother to know the game properly. To me you sound like someone trying to steer the game to... some vision you have? Maybe it will make the game better, but i doubt it.
But the point is that you sound like someone who want starsector catered to your want and not wanting starsector to succeed. Though as Ruddygreat mentioned below, some of your suggestions... do have merit


This is a good example of something NOT to say to keep discourse polite and on topic. No accusing people of lying about their intentions or gatekeeping please. Just because someone hasn't read every tooltip doesn't mean their suggestions are automatically bad: we can evaluate each suggestion on their own merit and explain if it doesn't work without this kind of comment.
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SafariJohn

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2021, 04:37:36 PM »

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All of the throttle settings are just that... a throttle.  Linear.  So please skip the individual buttons, and put them on a designated throttle!  Stealth/Slow ; Normal/Careful ; Cruise/Fast ; Emergency/GTFO

I thought of breaking that stuff out into a throttle UI a couple years ago. Can't remember if I ever posted it because it was part of a general UI overhaul. I did do a mockup:

Spoiler
[close]
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dgchessman2

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2021, 04:47:58 PM »

Want another example of why it feels like Supplies just don't cover it?

It takes my fleet over 2 weeks to get crushed in a black hole.  They just sit there.  In a black hole.  At 0% combat.
It takes WEEKS.
But with a cargo hull full of goods and a well maintained fleet things turn into Pandorum 4 days outside of port when supplies run out, and by the time I make it back to my faction, I realize that the only way this run is going to be profitable is when I write 'Space Lord of the Flies' to try to recoup some of my losses.

Supplies are just.... too big.  They mean too many things at once, but don't cover other things that are just headscratchers.
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Yunru

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2021, 04:50:31 PM »

It takes my fleet over 2 weeks to get crushed in a black hole.  They just sit there.  In a black hole.  At 0% combat.
It takes WEEKS.
You're right, that's kinda immersion breaking.
It should take CYCLES. Time dilation and all that.

JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2021, 04:51:47 PM »

It takes my fleet over 2 weeks to get crushed in a black hole.  They just sit there.  In a black hole.  At 0% combat.
It takes WEEKS.

Well, I have suggested adding time dilation to black holes on multiple occasions, dunno why it keeps getting ignored (except maybe because bounty fleets sometimes end up in black holes, but one would think that such a fleet would die eventually anyways and I dunno how player could easily kite bounty fleet into black hole on their own; but if bounty fleet dies, one would think player still gets credit).
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I wasn't always a Judge...

Thaago

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2021, 05:09:45 PM »

The official forum rules can be found here:https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2668.0

I recommend everyone who has gotten a warning reacquaint yourselves with them.

@SirHartley, please consider this an official warning for the following. It was uncalled for and breaks the toxicity rules.
Spoiler
I am seriously amazed by the amount of effort you put into shitposting, it is very admirable. Todays internet has become a cesspool of low effort memes, but you keep taking the time to create minor works of art.

Very well done!
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@lovhes please consider this an official warning for the following.
Spoiler
...

i am not sure you really do want this game to succeed if you don't even bother to know the game properly. To me you sound like someone trying to steer the game to... some vision you have? Maybe it will make the game better, but i doubt it.
But the point is that you sound like someone who want starsector catered to your want and not wanting starsector to succeed. Though as Ruddygreat mentioned below, some of your suggestions... do have merit
[close]

@Yunru, please consider this an official warning for repeated thread derailment and snide provocation after a general warning to not do those things.

@slowpersun, for repeated thread derailment after a general warning to not, and in light of past warnings (both official and in other threads), you are getting a 3 day ban.

@dgchessman2 with regards to the following:
Spoiler
Exactly, you put your suggestions out there to receive comment. You're entitled to get annoyed when the comment you receive is negative, but that doesn't justify insulting any and everyone who disagrees with you.

I just respond to the comment in the spirit it was given.  ^_^  Individually.  Based on the comment.
Because turnabout is fair play.
[close]
This may seem a natural thing to do, but it only feeds antagonistic people and contributes to the thread as a whole devolving. If someone is being toxic, please use the report button and don't engage with it yourself.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2021, 05:50:00 PM by Thaago »
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Thaago

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Re: General Suggestions and Food for Thought
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2021, 05:50:46 PM »

The thread has been reopened and offending posts removed. Please everyone keep on topic to the suggestions at hand.
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