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[robokill]

how about a frieghter with no guns but has 0. flux eficiant shields, a frigate with a single large mount, a ram ship, and a emp troll.

[Uomoz]

So me and a friend of mine were playing U'sC at his home yesterday and he showed me a particular weapon\ship combination. A Nomad sandstorm with 8 (!) Particle Cannon Array melting an Onslaught in 10 seconds. That combo is sick, I do agree, but wouldn't 8 large energy weapons melt your own flux too? I doublechecked and turns out that the dmg \ flux cost of many NC energy weapons is well above 1:1, while *all* vanilla energy weapons have way worse ratios. (eg. Plasma Cannon 563\900, Particle Cannon Array  467\225). This is quite a big balance issue in the Compilation! What you think about it Flash?

[FlashFrozen]

I'm in the process of a general nerf, to most things, but the Particle Cannon Array was meant to be a Energy Slot  version of the storm needler but also does kinetic but with shorter range as a drawback, but it's as like most nc weapons it is fairly bursty in terms of flux use and damage,

Give me a day or 2 and i'll put up a supplementary patch into 1.375 or something  

Edit: New version is up, and stuffs  

- Relativity -


This bulky frigate houses only 2 small weapons slots but hides a highly weaponized version of the emp emitter, dealing nearly 5 times more normal damage while having slightly less emp effect,
The necessary power generators and quick discharge capacitors have made this frigate slightly larger than it's predecessors leaving it somewhat more exposed.

Also introducing the:

- Pulsar Beam -


This small slot weapon is miniaturized synchrotron that can accelerate protons consistently up to 4 TeV. With a high capacity storage ring this weapons fires a dense beam of protons in a quick burst, before cycling into the next burst from the storage ring. The high energy of the protons are quickly lost when past a mere 450 meters.

And now, for completeness sake I've made it in to a series.

- Dual Pulsar Beam -


By increasing slot size, the available space for a larger synchrotron increases damage and range. Proportionally requires more energy to use as well.

- Heavy Pulsar Beam -


The final form of the Pulsar series, this weapon is so large and energy hungry, few ships dare use it for it's random nature outside of knife fights. Drawing almost 2900 flux to fire one shot. However its power is undeniable.

[Ghoti]

The photon guns and the photon repeater arn't being used by the AI correctly right now. Increasing their range to 1500-2000 get's them to be a bit better without effecting the firing characteristics of the gun. Ideally the AI would be making estimates based on the size, speed, maneuverability, and distance of the target. But actually firing when there's something to hit is fine too.

Another problem is that with the AI using these weapons at least semi competently, it's gonna be pretty apparent how powerful the photon guns are.

[FlashFrozen]

Hmm, mind I asking how it's deficient in its current state? Not enough effective damage? Or is it they don't fire often enough?


It's a quirk of the photons, their missile range fair exceeds what it should be but I still can't seem to bring down it's lifetime after it hits its max range
Another boon is that the projectile doesn't track immediately, they drift 100 or so meters or like 1 second of delay before tracking it's a pro or a con if you want to hit a certain target right in front of you, or annoying since it prob could of made the shot if it tracked earlier.

I've bumped up their range before, it didn't affect the weapons dramatically imo it made them somewhat awkward, since they'd fire off their 3-4 round burst real early and missing, since it'll only guide the photon projectile for a few seconds ( not enough for 850-950m range ) and then the target is way off.

But their guided properties are semi lacking but unique, as a secret tip from me, add the ECCM hull mod, it will improve accuracy Dramatically, to the point even hounds completely aren't safe if you fire a good spread.

[Ghoti]

ECCM effects tracking? huh.

Anyway. The photon guns arn't deficient in any sense. They're seriously effective. As I said. Ideally the AI would be making estimates based on the size, speed, maneuverability, and distance of the target, rather than firing all the torps off once their target gets into range. I believe the AI DOES do that for projectiles, just not for missiles acting like projectiles. Even the bombers are pretty bad about stuff like this.

Regardless. The time to fire a photon gun is as soon as you can to maximize DPS. The reasons for this are legion.
You might hit your target.
You might coax your enemy into firing point defenses, slowing them down.
You might miss and hit something behind your target.
If multiple ships fire at a distance, the cross fire will make the AI freak out trying to dodge.
Waiting with a regenerating stock of ammo means you are wasting ammo.
Antagonizing a far off enemy gives you tactical advantages in positing your ships (The same reason the Pilum LRM is so good)

Firing early is the best strategy, and the AI should always be using the best strategy.

[FlashFrozen]

As a general, the game's ai sadly doesn't include projectile speed into the calculations for aiming weaponry, if it's a missile, ballistic or whatever, it'll still point the gun straight at the current position of the enemy, probably for good reason, if the AI could make perfect shots all the time, why would you want to have player aim-able weaponry at all?

Reason ballistic tends to hit more often is because of their inherent inaccuracy, their spread allows it to shoot in the direction that it should of aimed had it done the real calculations. Energy weapons as a whole are for the most part perfectly accurate.

I do agree with rechargeable weapons that it feels kind of like a waste just having that clip at max, but I don't see of making them use it only when fully charged, in which case I'd glady make it more Fire support-y

But being caught at point blank range with a slowly recharging but empty clip because they you got trigger happy just isn't fun

[Ghoti]

As a general, the game's ai sadly doesn't include projectile speed into the calculations for aiming weaponry,

   

I do agree with rechargeable weapons that it feels kind of like a waste just having that clip at max

 

But being caught at point blank range with a slowly recharging but empty clip because they you got trigger happy just isn't fun

 
Right
Frozen
It's time to get on with the photon (check missions)
http://www.mediafire.com/?ud1qaym9szzn3r7

[FlashFrozen]

But but you gave them 3 times the range and took away all their pd! 

The excessive range let's all their ships just fire away and puts most of your fleet under constant suppression, not unlike pilum Lrm spam, but without any pd, it just annoying to stop, my best analogy is that you gave 1 side sniper rifles and the otherside pistols and asked one side to walk across the field when they normally could atleast get some cover/pd

But in larger engagements spamming away does do wonders since without any 360 shields you will find a slip through your non 360 shields 

[Ghoti]

Both sides were exactly the same stat wise. Your ships were the same as their ships. The ONLY difference was the way the AI behaved.

I've won that mission actually. I did it by taking manual control of one of the heavy photon repeaters, and firing at a target from a distance.

[FlashFrozen]

I've just finally gotten to beat it once, and I admit the constant need to keep yourself alert at all times is the biggest trouble since they have 3 times the range making them able to shoot you from practically offscreen,

but while it may not be a stomp, it's more of positions, since you just need to flank to do damage, and the ai tends to be better at that than a player xP

Spoiler

[close]

It's much easier when you have map control, and you take out their bigger slower ships such as hacksaws and grinders since chasing the frigates and the vice is just plain hard.

[Alex]

As a general, the game's ai sadly doesn't include projectile speed into the calculations for aiming weaponry, if it's a missile, ballistic or whatever, it'll still point the gun straight at the current position of the enemy, probably for good reason, if the AI could make perfect shots all the time, why would you want to have player aim-able weaponry at all?

Happened to see this, and wanted to comment - the AI absolutely *does* take projectile speed into account. The quality of this prediction varies with crew experience, with elite crews being very good at it, and green crews being woefully inadequate.

As for bombers, again, the quality of the prediction varies with crew level - but bombs are also very hard to aim, since the target ship has plenty of opportunity to move out of the way or simply change its velocity vector.


The missile tracking algorithm uses a similar method of prediction to aim at where the target is going to be, and the ECCM mod improves it.

[Ghoti]

missile tracking. What about missile launch? Does the AI launch directly at the target or does it lead? Because leading is the correct behavior in this case. Actually, there isn't an easy answer. The torps subtly track, Which throws off pretty much most attempts to aim them.

I've just finally gotten to beat it once, and I admit the constant need to keep yourself alert at all times is the biggest trouble since they have 3 times the range making them able to shoot you from practically offscreen.

Well done. That mission isn't easy.

Why don't you try refitting your ships to use the ranged photon guns, so that your AI plays ball as well? The word walk in the park would spring to mind.

[Alex]

missile tracking. What about missile launch? Does the AI launch directly at the target or does it lead? Because leading is the correct behavior in this case. Actually, there isn't an easy answer. The torps subtly track, Which throws off pretty much most attempts to aim them.

Yeah, it leads the target with unguided or poorly guided missiles - again, quality dependent on crew level.

[Ghoti]

Ack. Even I thought the behavior was different in that particular case. Especially because it's advantageous with poorly guided missiles to shoot behind the target to get the missile to chase. Rather than trying to intercept the target perpendicularly.

Thanks for the input.