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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.86-RC3)  (Read 989923 times)

Jayc

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #990 on: December 28, 2015, 09:26:36 PM »

Hi, Causality is lovely to pilot, feeling like an ace pilot. How can one get a Falken though? The OP stated tips for spawning it in the Exerelin mod, but I'm using StarSector+ instead.
(I tried console command: addship falken but it didn't work.)
That is because Neutrino, like most mods, has a prefix in front of all of the ship names that must be entered into the console in order for it to work. The proper command is: addship neutrino_falken
Amazing, thank you!
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #991 on: December 28, 2015, 09:47:38 PM »

Hi, Causality is lovely to pilot, feeling like an ace pilot. How can one get a Falken though? The OP stated tips for spawning it in the Exerelin mod, but I'm using StarSector+ instead.
(I tried console command: addship falken but it didn't work.)
That is because Neutrino, like most mods, has a prefix in front of all of the ship names that must be entered into the console in order for it to work. The proper command is: addship neutrino_falken
Amazing, thank you!
No problem! Just remeber that you need that prefix for spawning just about all mod ships. You can find it by either looking at the mod's hull files or by using the command: list ships . Be warned though that list ships will list ALL the ships in the game and thus will have a HUGE list
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Jayc

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #992 on: December 29, 2015, 04:13:25 AM »

No problem! Just remeber that you need that prefix for spawning just about all mod ships. You can find it by either looking at the mod's hull files or by using the command: list ships . Be warned though that list ships will list ALL the ships in the game and thus will have a HUGE list
Got it, thanks again for the advice/info
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tanith

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #993 on: December 29, 2015, 06:46:58 PM »

Is there any reason why the Singularity's burn speed isn't 10? I've already changed the CSV file so I can chase small pirate fleets more effectively, but when it's the Nexerilin starting craft, it's a small hassle.

In unrelated news, the Causality frigate remains one of my favorites. Current fleet has six of them and they just scoot around, tarballing and distracting everything until a heavy hitter can roll up and finish the job.
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sycspysycspy

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #994 on: January 05, 2016, 06:58:26 AM »

Is there any reason why the Singularity's burn speed isn't 10? I've already changed the CSV file so I can chase small pirate fleets more effectively, but when it's the Nexerilin starting craft, it's a small hassle.

In unrelated news, the Causality frigate remains one of my favorites. Current fleet has six of them and they just scoot around, tarballing and distracting everything until a heavy hitter can roll up and finish the job.
any change done to the csv file would require to start a new game to take effect, that is based on what i experienced. Might be mistaken
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 12:27:30 AM by sycspysycspy »
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Deathfly

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #995 on: January 07, 2016, 04:36:52 AM »

Is there any reason why the Singularity's burn speed isn't 10? I've already changed the CSV file so I can chase small pirate fleets more effectively, but when it's the Nexerilin starting craft, it's a small hassle.

In unrelated news, the Causality frigate remains one of my favorites. Current fleet has six of them and they just scoot around, tarballing and distracting everything until a heavy hitter can roll up and finish the job.

Ah, the Singularity is a heavy escort frigate and I think it should be burn 9 like the Brawler. But seems like it is the only...not too exordinary one in Neutrino's frigate line, maybe I should reconsider about that.

And about the Causality...hmm, that one is a little too good for now. A phase phrigate plus a long range support missile system is a little bit too strong. Maybe I should do some more adjustment on that phase cloak.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 04:58:51 AM by Deathfly »
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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #996 on: January 07, 2016, 04:57:19 AM »

It seems that the built-in has higher priority on the Nirvash, so it never really tries to broadside unless it finds itself in range of them. Well, aggressive officer makes it work, but only until it explodes. Try replacing the lance with a launcher, maybe that makes it work? I think it needs a weapon with the 'dont aim' hint to make the broadside AI work properly.

Pulsar Beams are in a pretty good place now, I think, except the flux use on the Large.

Misery/Bane also need a flux use reduction, since they have no burst to speak of. They have nearly the flux efficiency of a tachyon lance atm.

Neutron Pulses are still awkward. I really want to like them, but the projectile is too slow, the flux efficiency too bad and the dps just not worth it.

Disruptor/Antiproton/Darkmatter/etc all the rest looks fine atm. Will keep playing, I don't have the skills/ships to test out the top-end large weapons yet.

Ha, seems like I push a little too more on Pulsar Beams, I had higher the flux usage for the small and mid one a little bit (about 3%) to make them balance. And for the Heavy Pulsar Beam, it keep that high flux require for reasons.

Both Misery and Bane have significant range superiority so that's why they cost more flux to fire.

About Neutron Pulse Cannons...hmm, in fact they hit harder then you though if they hit on hull. Just use them as HE weapon. And 1000 range for a mid energy weapon is not a joke.

Disruptor with 600 range is too damn good. Should lower it to 550.
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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #997 on: January 07, 2016, 05:54:18 AM »

er, just cann't resist to make the 1000th post.
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Taverius

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #998 on: January 07, 2016, 08:30:26 AM »

Ha, seems like I push a little too more on Pulsar Beams, I had higher the flux usage for the small and mid one a little bit (about 3%) to make them balance. And for the Heavy Pulsar Beam, it keep that high flux require for reasons.
Its unreasonably high on the heavy, the only reason to use it is there's no competition in that role. It has the flux efficiency of a plasma cannon with 2/3 the dps, and the higher burst is more than set off by the atrocious accuracy already.

On the other hand, yeah the medium is a bit strong - its nearly pulse laser levels of efficiency with a range, damage and burst advantage.

On the whole though my stance is a higher burst doesn't warrant higher flux use if its already offset by an accuracy penalty that neutralizes the ability to punch through a piece of armour.

Can't speak for the small as there's only ever one ship you'd ever use it on.

Both Misery and Bane have significant range superiority so that's why they cost more flux to fire.
They have a range advantage, but a considerable armour penetration and shield-overloading disadvantage due to the minuscule per-shot damage. Overall they should be less efficient than a pulse laser but right now the penalty is too high.

About Neutron Pulse Cannons...hmm, in fact they hit harder then you though if they hit on hull. Just use them as HE weapon. And 1000 range for a mid energy weapon is not a joke.
But that's all theoretical - they're so atrociously slow you have to be kissing shields to hit a cruiser or smaller with them, and against a capital at 1k you can maybe hit 1 volley before they finish venting. They make hellbore shots seem fast, and those are already barely usable as it is.

If they're going to stay this slow they need to pump out a lot more damage for that flux, right now any other option is better in practice. At that point I'd rather see the rod go way down and the damage way up, so you're betting you can hit with that one volley before the venting is over, but if does then its noticeable.

Disruptor with 600 range is too damn good. Should lower it to 550.
Maybe lower the rof instead so its easier to overwhelm it.



Anyway, I'm complaining because I care. I love FF's art and want to see Neutrino played more.

Thanks for all the hard work, its great to see NC being polished more.

P.S. I really don't like the Piledriver-A, these days an NC ship without neutronium armor is not an NC ship anymore.

P.P.S. I don't understand the wording of the High-Torque Turret Motor upgrade - increases weapon turn rate by 3 but slow them down by 25%? Slow what down, the turn rate you just increased?

P.P.P.S. I had a feeling and did some testing on a Criticality - Antiproton PD is really atrociously bad compared to Heavy Burst and other Medium Energy PD. The damage itself isn't bad, but the fact that it basically stops turning once it fires makes it a waste of OP.



Final issue:

Its fine if NC ships have higher fuel use than most, but right now that's too exaggerated - a full neutrino fleet with no tugs costs more fuel/LY than a normal fleet with as many tugs as possible. A neutrino fleet with 3 cruisers and 3 destroyers takes as much fuel as a vanilla fleet with a capital and 5 cruisers.

The numbers look fine in a theoretical way but practically in the game the economy simply can't produce enough fuel for an end-game neutrino fleet, and you find yourself in a situation where you futz around in a system for in-game months waiting for large markets to produce enough fuel to let you go grab a bounty. There's nothing fun or interesting about that.

Taking the Hacksaw as an example, it has a fuel/LY of 4. 99% of cruisers have a value of 3. It really should not be above 3, which is the highest in vanilla and already high, as the low maintenance cost is already mostly offset by how long it takes to recover CR on NC ships.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 11:03:04 AM by Taverius »
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #999 on: January 09, 2016, 09:56:54 AM »

Pulsar beams have two big advantages compared to their vanilla counterparts (IR pulse, pulse laser and plasma cannon), which is damage per shot and projectile speed. Pulsar can overload a target before it can react, while the AI tends to be usually quick enough to lower its shield against vanilla weapons.

The heavy variant is a bit weirder, the huge flux per shot make it difficult to use on the low capacity Neutrinos ships. On the good side, it's 5 OPs cheaper than the plasma cannon, 5 OPs that can improve further the ship flux stats. It's a kinda situational weapon, but it still works.

I'm not incredibly fan of the Bane/Misery either. It's pretty much useless against anything with armor, perhaps increasing the crit chance? Or maybe adding a chance to spawn a weak EMP arc on hit? It would make it more of a close support weapon though.

I like Neutron pulse cannons however, even if they're highly situational. In small knife-fights between frigates and destroyers? Not worth it, as you said they're too slow to reach their targets. In large battles with numerous capital ships and cruisers? Now that's more interesting. The huge range and big armor damage make them a very good "spray and pray" area denial weapon. Form a line of cruisers with those and you can fire a rain of slow-moving projectiles the enemy will have to move through to get close, a bit like unguided lrm spam. Even the faster ones will eventually get wet in the rain.

As said earlier, not an ideal weapon against fast targets and early game in general, but still handy to lock down cruisers/capital ships later on.
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Taverius

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #1000 on: January 09, 2016, 11:11:10 AM »

Possibly the heavy pulsar has too much burst right now - at 1750 per shot its a bit too high, and steps too much on the feet of the PRAZMA CANON and the heavier neutrino weapons.

And possibly the medium pulsar is too much like a pulse laser and could do with an up-bursting and down-rofing. But I'd rather wait for any new changes and then give them a thorough wash in the game.

Although the 30+OP large neutrino guns have a bigger issue - there's only one ship that can mount them /and/ use them, the banshee, and that one does best with a missile focus.

I miss the original jackhammer, and the banshee norn would be a lot more interesting to fly if it had 2 large mounts in the back instead of 2 mediums, and even then it would be somewhat undergunned.

By the way, I wonder if there's something that can be done for the Lathe - right now most ai-controlled Lathes like to turn 30 degrees sideways to face its flank & rear turret to the enemy, meaning it never hits you with the 2 front large mounts and its easy to shoot past the shields and smoke it. If you're fighting neutrinos they're basically loot pinatas.

Ah, another thing I noticed - Flohs basically always miss, since their main and only weapon has a charge up time and is a slow beam, and they fire it while moving at max range. Right now they're effective at distracting and catching bullets but they might as well not have a weapon.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 11:15:52 AM by Taverius »
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Gezzaman

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #1001 on: January 10, 2016, 01:34:07 PM »

I'm not incredibly fan of the Bane/Misery either. It's pretty much useless against anything with armor, perhaps increasing the crit chance? Or maybe adding a chance to spawn a weak EMP arc on hit? It would make it more of a close support weapon though.

Loving the Bane for over coming shields super fast (2x bane on my capitol takes shields down so quickly ) letting the explosive mounts do it's job.
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Illamon

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #1002 on: January 14, 2016, 09:41:12 PM »

Hello I am pretty new, I really enjoy them for the most part, mainly running against as they are a difficult enemy. My biggest problem the phase ships though. I was rolling with some pretty good firepower capital ship, 3 fighter wings and I was going against 5 of them, I could not even damage one of them. They just wrecked me. Their is just no way to counter them that I can find.
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Deathfly

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #1003 on: January 15, 2016, 01:36:22 AM »

OK, seems like we got many feed bake here.

@Illamon
Well, I think that's not a Neutrino's porblem because 5 phase frigates are supposed to be able to bring down a capital ship. To fight phase ships you need some fast ships that can box them in and lock thier flux up.

@Taverius
Thank you for you love! And that's all.

Ah, I just kidding. And thank you for your comments ones again.

For Pulsar Beams, I just put a new script that will make them fire even rapider after eash shot if you consecutive firing it. It is a new balance trick that make them work less powerful on the ships which can't suppor thire flux cost and I will need to do some more test about it.
But for the Heavy Pulsar Beam...well, I'd rather to keep it's DPH because it is the only heavy hitting energy weapon.

To the Misery and Bane, if you count the crit hit in, they will do 300/600 DPH on hull. And that crit do a really big armor breaking bite so you'd better give them more try.
In next release the crit on shield they do will cause deal soft flux but do more damage. Which means more fun, er at least form may try.

Then about the Neutron pulse cannons, HELMUT use them right. I tried to give them more projectile speed but that don't feels good. But anyway I do make them fly a little bit faster to overcome the inertance form launching ship, and swith the extra damage on hull into 50% armor breaking damage(well, some magical script damage the will ignore armor damage reduce) instead of HE damage.

And the fuel use...er, just don't bring a too big Neutrino fleet, please. That's a balance factor and you are supposed to have that "out of fuel" problem in your situation.

And the Antiproton on Criticality...It work as a PD/EMP dual use beam and fine for me as long as I don't got spamed by lots of fast moving missiles.

High-Torque Turret Motor will no longer reduce the weapon turn rate it just improved in next release.

Piledriver (A) is really a less Neutrino ship becauce it's high speed and lack of NP. But I think every faction can have some out of style ships.

And the 30+ OP weapons are all experimentally so don't expect them use widely.

@HELMUT
Thank you for your playing. that's all. LOL.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 01:38:10 AM by Deathfly »
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Taverius

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82RC3)
« Reply #1004 on: January 15, 2016, 06:03:57 AM »

And the fuel use...er, just don't bring a too big Neutrino fleet, please. That's a balance factor and you are supposed to have that "out of fuel" problem in your situation.
I maintain that the fuel usage over the higher vanilla values is too much and should be toned down, but I'll revisit that argument at a later time :)

Moving on, I've gotten annoyed by the issues the AI has with firing the hidden frontal weapons on NC ships. I then noticed all hardpoints on vanilla ships that are not missiles have at least a 5 degree aiming angle. I added this to all the hidden front mounts - Hacksaw, Grinder, Lathe, etc - and while you can barely tell the difference as a player, the AI seems to do a lot better with it. I recommend you try it out, it does a lot less of the 'I'm going to to aim slightly at you but act confused and do nothing' thing.

I also was still occasionally hitting the Polarity issue where it has no CR and can't recover any. Giving them 1 OP seems to have fixed it - with one OP the only hull mod you can give it is Maximized Ordnance, which removes all Cargo & Fuel, so it has no real effect except preventing that issue, it seems.

Finally, campaign integration needs a little help. NC barely makes any bounties, ever, and the station in Corvus is not really viable for early game because NC is not a Hegemony ally - thus there's a good chance they'll go to war and you'll get chased about the place by all Hegemony fleets in your Destroyer+2frigate starter fleet. Ideally NC would have a second system with a pirate base and a small enemy market.
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