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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.86-RC3)  (Read 986337 times)

stormbringer951

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #945 on: December 10, 2015, 06:30:31 AM »

Also, some more bug fixes:

Standalone Download here -  http://www.mediafire.com/download/37ciwuan4ndalnl/Neutrino+corp+1.82rc2.zip

Another case-sensitivity fix for Linux: mod_info.json line 12,

Code
	"jars": ["jars/NeutrinoJAR.jar"]

should be changed to NeutrinoJar.jar now that you've changed the .jar filename.
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Weapons Group Controls mod - deselect all weapon groups, hold-down hold-fire mode, toggle alternating/linked fire
Captain's Log - throw away your notepad: custom notes, ruins and salvageable reminders
Old Hyperion - for your dose of nostalgia
Adjustable Skill Thresholds - set fleet DP and fighter bay thresholds

HELMUT

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #946 on: December 10, 2015, 07:02:47 AM »

The short version is that I think the Neutrino faction is too strong and more importantly very unfun to play against.

Just by curiosity, what kind of play-style do you use? A fully combat skilled flagship with a few escorts or rather a larger fleet boosted by the tech skill?

I personally always loved to fight Neutrinos. Granted, i haven't tried them yet since their most recent nerf. However i learned they are extremely vulnerable preys when you have the right fleet.

Neutrinos are probably the second strongest faction in the modding community when it comes to individual ships. Their extremely efficient shields and strong armor (that should be thinner since the last update) make them the best in 1v1 scenarios. Add their powerful venting ability on top of that, there's not much that can outbrawl a Neutrino ship. That's why you never fight a Neutrino fleet on equal numbers, and even less when outnumbered, especially since they can have officers now. You won't get past their shields and they'll eventually hack you to pieces.

However, they are the most vulnerable when outnumbered, much more than other factions. Their shields, while very strong, have a very narrow arc, which prevent them from blocking shots from several directions at once. Once their surrounded, they're in a really bad spot.

That's how i regularly farm Neutrino fleet. A bunch of cheap frigates with long range HE weapons or fighters (they really don't like Thunders and their ion cannons). There's no need focusing their shields with kinetic weapons and bombers, they'll just vent it off anyway. Once the armor is gone, their weak hull can't hold very long. The phase ships like TheEnd are in the same situation, the AI tends to uncloak stupidly and re-activating their phase cloak cost a lot of flux, which will eventually overload them. Once again, fighters are pretty good at forcing phase ships to make mistakes. It's no different than fighting Afflictors and Dooms, it's just a game of patience.

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Deathfly

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #947 on: December 10, 2015, 09:21:56 AM »

Also, some more bug fixes:

Standalone Download here -  http://www.mediafire.com/download/37ciwuan4ndalnl/Neutrino+corp+1.82rc2.zip

Another case-sensitivity fix for Linux: mod_info.json line 12,

Code
	"jars": ["jars/NeutrinoJAR.jar"]

should be changed to NeutrinoJar.jar now that you've changed the .jar filename.


LOL on this one.
I fix this case-sensitivity issue by change this line in mod_info.json form my end and FlashFrozen fix this by rename the .jar file.
And a double fix was done, great.  :D
(@FlashFrozen, let's keep the change in mod_info.json. I just too lazy to rename the project in my IDE...)

@Therlun
Thank you for you reply.

Well, I know how you felling because I also got pwned many time in test fight VS Neutrino too.
But well, I think the really problem is not the defence(after last balance the defence drop form S++ to A I think) nor the fire power (most Neutrino weapon act...at lease fine).
The really problem may be the weapon range superiority and the too success AI tactics (plus some fitting I made that can push the ship to its maximum efficiency).
Instead of using the ship in same class to do a front assault, AI will always use some smaller ship to pin you down and scatter you out, while keeping a little more motility enough to let them pull out form your reach. And that will make Neutrino's weapon range superiority and high flux dissipate rate take most advantage.
But if you are fighting to a Tri-Tachyon fleet, they will do the most same thing to you, except they can kit you in the same ship class and some of thier fittings are....meh.
And about the phase ships. Neutrino's phase ships may be a little more dangerous then the vanilla ones. But more annoying? I don't think so. The vanilla phase ships are far more annoying then Neutrino's. They will do the same disturb to any fleet and do it more safer.
About The END, well, I am gona to nerf it by remove the 4 hiden front slots. She realy hold too much fire power for a carrier.

@valefore
In fact I just make the active flux vent rate penalty correct stack with player skill, not make it penalty more.
(And...well, please don't use a mod to judge another mod's balance. It may turn out that both mods are IMBA. And may provoke a new arms race. :) )

@HELMUT
er, your tactics may work less efficiency now because Neutrino's new armor can soak up a more light damage now.

Any way, the new balance pass is under way. And any comment and suggestion are all welcome.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 09:28:54 AM by Deathfly »
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Maelstrom

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #948 on: December 10, 2015, 09:53:38 AM »

Btw, one thing, please make the supply/repair rate better instead of making ships stronger in fight, the extremely hard logistic to maintain makes it really *** to have the fleet of your dreams withought running out of money/supplies. It would be more fun if the ships were better at defense and less focussed on attack in some cases and probably make the ships slower since the unsung is just WAY too strong in that regards... I mean, its my favorite ship ever but even I find it too good. You really need to make the mod more balanced for vanilla since vanilla has a story to it and gives you some lore to enjoy, nexerelin doesn't have that and neutrino is a bit more exerelin orriented sadly... Maybe you could make a vanilla balanced and a nexerelin balanced version because both enviroments have different things to watch out for. In the end, I really like this mod and it would be really cool to see a new system for them added to the vanilla map and would also be cool if you could add a bunch of hidden places on the map to explore since that really makes exploring fun :)   

So far I would say that the only good thing about neutrino is they have a few good looking capital ships, the shield one looks really bad no offense but the back is just so ugly lol! Also I think that ship should have at least some flux accumulation because it is WAY too strong to use as a fun support ship. One thing which could make it actualy worth bringing in battle was if it had a much smaller shield but you would replace that with a repair deck with around 10 repair drones deployed and anyship inside the shields would get some slow but good hull repair. I think this would make for a really interesting new type of ship in the game because right now, there aren't enough long fights and this would really help to change that aspect of fights in game and probably make it possible to make fights last for at least weeks at the entrance of starsystems.

Lastly, since neutrino has the best capital ships around, could you focuse less on adding ships for now and making different paint/varients/modified ship hulls which other factions could buy since right now, I don't see neutrino as a lonely faction but more as a corporation (and we don't see that alot and this mod is about a corporation anyway lol) and it would be more peaceful with factions like hegemony/tritachyon/sindrian diktat and would basicly supply them with rare but really usefull capital ships. It would just be really cool to see that since already Starsector + already does that alot and its so just way better that a faction which looks completely unafected by the vanilla world and just looks like its there for the player... Anyway, I guess I could help do that with sprites because I do have alot of spare time and since I have aspergers I can just become a sprite factory if I have the motivation. All I would do is take the already there sprites and outfit them to fit with the factions in vanilla and would learn at the same time to program the bounderies and weapons slots and emplacements :) after that I could just post them on a thread where I would show the new sprites and could ask what people want and when I would be done I would give them to you. Wouldn't be complicated and I think it would really help the mod grow to a point like starsector + is :)
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pigreko

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #949 on: December 10, 2015, 09:22:50 PM »

is the secret location still therE? I played with neutrino before the last 2 patches, and I remember there was a location with n hidden system. is it still there?
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #950 on: December 10, 2015, 11:42:42 PM »

But both are made by the same person!
Both were created by FlashFrozen, but since he is more interested in creating cool ships designs than in adjusting numbers in a spreadsheet or coding, DeathFly and I took over most the maintenance/balancing part of Neutrino and Diable Avionics. And we have a very different approach to balancing: Deathfly apparently wanted to create a new gameplay gimmick for Neutrino that he could have more control over than basic game armor. On the other hand, I am more into slashing the offending values to fall back within vanilla range, making most the ships just average at best, and then work up from that point. (obviously, the second make a less flashy faction but I think it's less prone to errors)

This detail aside, even if mods are from the same person, don't compare their strengths. It would be extremely easy to have them becoming increasingly meant to face each other and become useless/op against anything else.
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Surge

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #951 on: December 11, 2015, 12:29:23 AM »

Funny, I'm doing a Diable playthrough right now and they're pretty hilariously flashy, like exigency with more carriers. I absolutely love it.
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Cik

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #952 on: December 11, 2015, 12:34:15 AM »

diable doesn't seem weak to me

i fought a deserter fleet of them

i said at the beginning "i'll just keep shooting these crazy fighters and thousands of missiles they keep throwing at me, until they run out"

they never did
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Surge

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #953 on: December 11, 2015, 12:56:36 AM »

Yeah Diable is kinda odd in that they have to play to their strengths or they get stomped fast, that means insane missile and fighter spam. All of their fighters are gunships in and of themselves and the regenerating ammo on their micro missiles pairs with how common flight decks and small missile mounts are on their ship to make them downright absurd in larger fleet battles. Not to mention the HTPC on the Gust...
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #954 on: December 11, 2015, 02:19:45 AM »

They will have a second balance pass soon enought now that I had time to play more with them and gather some feedback. They won't change much though, while there are a couple of rough edges as I think I struck a pretty good spot overall. But enough derail, that's for the Diable thread.
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Bastion.Systems

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #955 on: December 11, 2015, 04:40:48 AM »

I like Neutrino Corp. as they are something to fight Templars with.
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Maelstrom

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #956 on: December 11, 2015, 10:26:19 AM »

true but templars are a faction which really doesn't fit vanilla story and balance :/ thats the main issue right now since it would be cooler if the player had to join factions and protect as much as he can withought OP ships, its more challenging, better, more fun, makes you enjoy the new join battle feature/ and finaly, isn't just you vs them :)  Honestly, I don't like templars because they are also really not fitting with starsector with all their flashy colors and just weird noises lol + we already have a religious faction in the game XD
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Ghoti

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #957 on: December 11, 2015, 02:14:51 PM »

I know where you're coming from lilstrip. Mod is super super cool and the ships are goregous, you want to play them but they don't fit!

but it's also important to respect what a mod is. In neutrino corp's case it's upfront about it.

quoteth the mod_info.json
Quote
{
  "id":"Neutrino", # internal id
   "name":"Neutrino Corporation", # displayed to the player
   "author":"Flashfrozen and Deathfly",   
   "version":"1.82",
   "description":"25 neutrino ships, and 2 bombers with 6 fighters and 34 unique weapons",
   "gameVersion":"0.7.1a",
   "modPlugin":"data.scripts.NCModPlugin",
#     "m_isVanillaBalanced":"false",
#     "m_isCompilation":"false",   
#      "m_incompatibleWith":"Collection, UomozCorvus",
   "jars": ["jars/NeutrinoJAR.jar"]
}
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Alex

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #958 on: December 11, 2015, 07:42:55 PM »

To all those who got Index: 0 Size 0 error:
Please DON'T use 64 bit JER 7 ro repalce Starsector 's JER. Use a 64 bit JER 8 instead.
Starsector upgraded to Java 8 since 0.7a (but maybe it still compatible to JRE 7) and so do the Neutrino since 1.82 (and Neutrino is not compatible to JRE 7 any more).
Sorry for the inconvenient.

Note: there's a very good chance of Starsector going back to JRE 7 for the next release, for Linux and Windows, due to various issues with JRE8.
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Deathfly

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Re: [0.7.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.82)
« Reply #959 on: December 11, 2015, 08:13:29 PM »

Note: there's a very good chance of Starsector going back to JRE 7 for the next release, for Linux and Windows, due to various issues with JRE8.

yeah, I heard about the strange performance issues about JRE 8 and I already switch back to JDK 7 in DEV ver. But still thank for the remind.
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A not-so-noob functional geneticist
And a free bug hunter
Code and decode almost everythings with a genomics approach.
Served in Neutrino corporation as a long-term services and supports staff.
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