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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.86-RC3)  (Read 818707 times)

Lopunny Zen

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #690 on: June 07, 2014, 10:04:21 PM »

fighter craft needs a revamp...the Drache, and the Floh are fine..in fact they seem able to fight fighters better then the others...how come they dont have a dedicated fighter for fighter wing capabilities...the problem is the other fighter get clos to fighter and dont fire because they need range and they just circle around them blocking bullets. I think they need to have like a bust PD or something that can fire up close like that or fire in general against fighters. It doesnt feel right that they have a super carrier but the fighters done help much which makes the fleet feel useless because any fleet with a fighter fleet seems to crush Neutrino fleets. Also the TheEnd CR doesnt like to replenish out of yellow, I know they replenish slow and i have dealt with the other ships but this one seems to be a special case and I can barely use it which is bad since its a cheaper carrier then the others by far
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FlashFrozen

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #691 on: June 07, 2014, 10:39:59 PM »

Which specific fighters are bad? I know in general most of the fighters aren't really good at being fighters and I'm fine with that.

Since you listed 2 of 6 fighters, that only gives me 4 others fighters to judge, the schwarzgeist is a bomber wing so they aren't exactly good at fighting fighters, the drohnes are equipped with the same weapon so they are also just as bad.

This leaves the Schwarm and the newly introduced Gepard, the schwarm I think does prettttty well against most things considering it's meagre weaponry.
Try the the gepards, they tear most things up even other fighters, they can come in a standard wing of 3 or a super ($$$) wing of 6.

I've just tested the TheEnd (hehe) again and I'm seeing the CR go up, have you tried just deleting the Neutrino directory and slapping in a current one?

Otherwise post up a screenshot of the ship in the fleet screen and I'll see what I can do.
Spoiler
picture of what i'm talking about.

[close]
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Lopunny Zen

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #692 on: June 08, 2014, 01:35:07 PM »

cant the drohne get a beam weapon so it can be a light combat scout vehicle...that can help in those moments and the schwe i count that as a heavy fighter/bomber hybrid...it seems to do good at both if given the distance but the drohne seems useless up close...like they wont attack a mining wing since they are slow and they are up close....i mean the drohne will never get harmed but still shows that they need to have something like a burst PD to handle things up close and give them a weak accurate fighting weapon. the Drache,Floh and schwer are fine its just the drohne needs to either add a beam weapon or replace the photon cannon for it since the actual game ai doesnt know how to handle those fighters
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HELMUT

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #693 on: June 15, 2014, 09:43:49 AM »

Tried a carrier fleet with the new Starsector + update (with the bigger fleets) and still managed to steamroll everyone.

The Gepard Sechs really helped. Those things are absolute monstrosities. There is no reason for the player to take the Drei version as the Sechs give you twice as many fighters for 2 less deployment points. Fighter wings can lose all their CR if all of them get instantly destroyed (in a big explosion or against very thick PDs), with 6 fighters, it almost impossible to instagib 6 Gepards.

Honestly the 6 variant shouldn't be in the game, it's super broken. The 3 variant is already very powerful already.

For the Drohne, i have to agree with Lopunny Zen. Having one wing at early/mid game is okay to capture quickly strategic points but it can't do anything else. Maybe switching the Photon torpedo with a pair of Disruptor? At least that would make it an interesting kind of Scout/Interceptor.

Not much else to say about other fighters. The Drache is kinda useless early game but later it become by far the best Paragon hunter (and other heavily shielded capital ship) of the game. Farming Tri-tachyons fleets have never been easier.

I liked the Misery/Bane guns but the sound is a bit too loud. Having 5 Gepards wings firing their guns can quickly destroy your ears. Also tried a triple Bane on the Maul with their massive range, not sure if if worked very well but at least it looked magnificent.

The Criticality is too good at 7 DPs. While it lack shields (it can still get a front shield generator at tech lvl3) it's still super agile and very hard to hit. In the hands of the player it's almost as deadly as an Hyperion. Raising the DP to 10 would make it more reasonable.

Another problem is the Vice destroyer that does a better job at everything compared to the Piledriver, and it cost 10 DPs to 12 for the Piledriver. Plus a large 360° universal turret, plus two medium missile, plus one medium energy. It's very powerful. It only have 6 burnspeed compared to 7 for the Pile but even at 6 it's still one of the fastest destroyer around. A bit lower flux and OPs but the effect is barely noticeable compared to the advantage of the 360° large mount.

TheEND is extremely powerful too. You can mount 5 pulsed beams on it, which cost very few OPs and can deal an incredible amount of damage. Two launch bays plus almost infinite phase cloak capacity. You can easily backstab other unsuspecting ships and phase back to safety in all impunity.

The AI currently use small fleets to fight but the DPs of their ships isn't actually that high, sometimes even lower than some Tri-tachyons ships. Plus Neutrinos have very small crews, which lower the logistic rating of the fleet so you can field more ships.

I think you should definitely increase the DP for some ships. Neutrinos are supposed to be the high-tech dudes that are always outnumbered, thing is that i wasn't that much outnumbered in my campaign (teched "making do" so i could halve my crew and add more vessels). So yeah, i'm definitely calling for some nerfs here and there so that you can't field as many ships.

But even when outnumbered, Neutrinos are still extremely strong. Managed to take down at lvl 25 an Exigency Harbinger fleet (exi is actually pretty effective against Neut due to their missiles going multiple direction and their CIGEN cannons). That fleet contained 6 capitals ships and 6 Cruisers, plus other stuffs yet i was still able to grind them to dust without losing a single ship or wing. Did the same against Valkyrian royal armada, usually their PDs can make Swiss cheese of carrier fleets but i was still able to loltstomp them (okay, i was using two Jackhammers as carriers but still!). I did this for nearly every giant fleets around.

I think they badly deserve a nerf to their DPs.
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FlashFrozen

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #694 on: June 15, 2014, 12:32:34 PM »

oooh, well thanks for the feedback :D

I'll see what more tuning I can make,

The Drei are the typical wing you'll see the Sechs are like the hyperion's of the fighter world, by having 6 launch you use up like 60% of your fighters CR and probably won't be as good the next fight. You get two wings of firepower but in a wing.
I thought I made it harder to get those though lol, unless bah omnifactory.

Drohne's weren't ever on the high end of offensive prowess, the disruptor idea isn't bad though they do already have flares, but they've been set to not fire on ships anymore, fighters yes more thought on the matter later.

The drache was always veery niche, I only slightly bumped it's bomb dropping frequency recently, though I still wish i could of kept it in a wing of one, (I remember the fighters just died off if it was the last or only one instead of respawning).

soundeffect toned down another 10 notches, but not sure if i can control how many wings your using :p

bumped criticality dp to 10, but lowered armor a bit.

The vice was kinda based on the sunder, but i guess that turret sets it a step above. bumped dp and lowered armor
lowered most of destroyers burn speed too.

I'll clamp down on cr time of the theend a bit more, phase ships need bursty weapons but I still find the ai suicide in that ship too often.


I kinda do want to know how it was for you after battles though, did you frequently run out of supplies/ make pit stops at stations etc.
Thanks again for the detailed feedback =D
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HELMUT

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #695 on: June 15, 2014, 02:13:48 PM »

The Drei are the typical wing you'll see the Sechs are like the hyperion's of the fighter world, by having 6 launch you use up like 60% of your fighters CR and probably won't be as good the next fight. You get two wings of firepower but in a wing.
I thought I made it harder to get those though lol, unless bah omnifactory.

The thing with the Hyperion is that it suck when the AI control it, only the player can really make the Hyperion a big deal so you can only get one in your fleet. It's the same thing with the Imaginos/Indra/Death Bloom. The Sechs is a fighter so this logic don't apply.

And even though we currently only got the Omnifactory mod to duplicate ships, a similar feature will probably be integrated in future SC updates.

So yeah, the Drei is already one of the best if not the best fighter around, the Sechs is just overkill and redundant.

For the after battle, yeah i always come back to a station to sell the loot and repair everything. It's indispensable with Neutrinos because of their abysmal CR recovery and high supply cost to fully repair, it's just impossible to repair outside of a station. Then again i also do it with every faction i play  because i always need to get rid of the loot and no matter how fast they can repair, it's always quicker and more efficient to go back to a station.

In the current state of the game, the low CR regeneration of the Neutrinos isn't a noticeable handicap. Also never ran out of supply with them, they need a lot to completely repair but don't consume that much per day.

Giving them a bigger supply cost per day could be a good idea. I remember the Patrian mod, those ships were devouring supplies at an insane rate, you were forced to take with you an entire convoy of freighter overfilled with supplies to avoid accidents. That would work pretty well with Neutrinos, it will force them to get a lot of freighters with them if they want to fight, reducing the effective number of military ships.

That would also make the Nausicaa finally useful.
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FlashFrozen

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #696 on: June 15, 2014, 03:28:47 PM »

I've toned the exclusivity of it, you can only see it in like... one fleet (by itself) and in one station no restocking though.

Having played it again, I find the low CR regen does affect supply usage in a notable way, in that you'll rarely ever be able to take advantage of the 10% supply usage at max cr so you actually do bleed a lot more supplies than it shows vs a high supply fast repair system.

But that's moot if we just hug stations and insta repair/etc.
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Dranume

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #697 on: June 17, 2014, 05:30:12 PM »

My observations:

1. The Combat readiness recovery is really really slow.  I dont know if this is done on purpose or something is wrong with my game. But once a ship gets below 50% CR, it tends to take forever to get the CR back up.

2. The super narrow shields are problematic, its worse than playing pong on my old Atari.  I would not mind a wider shield arc at the cost of efficiency, maybe 40-50% ship coverage?

3. I feel that some of the energy weapons for this ships, needs some more range..  Some of the short ranges with the weapons coupled with the narrow shields, the Ships have to deal with alot of abuse while they close the distance.

4. I have zero complaints about the torpedoes and missiles, I think they are cool!

So far, I am having fun with the ships and watching all the flashy lights pew pew all over the place.  Thank you for all the hard work that went into this mod!
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Arakash

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #698 on: June 21, 2014, 01:39:11 AM »

Does anyone have any advice for dealing with the drone super bombers?
Ive been playing Exerlin with this mod, fighting them as the Shadowyards faction from another mod.

Ive been running into groups of 3-4 wings of them at once. (so 4+ individual bombers at once)
They can basically overload the shields of any of my ships, including my capital in one bomb.
With about 2-4 bombs, they can kill it as well.

There is very little chance to avoid it or use PD, as the bombers tend to get very close before firing and the bombs themselves have a lot of hp it seems.
Ive tried fighter and frigate cover, but it isn't working amazingly well as the bombers are only moderately fragile.

So far, ive found them to be by far the biggest threat of the entire faction. To me they are more intimidating than pretty much anything short of another capital in that faction.
Ive lost more ships to them than pretty much anything I've fought in the 4-5 large battles ive had so far. (including 2-3 capital ships to the drones alone)

Any advice for dealing with them?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 02:22:33 AM by Arakash »
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sarducardun

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #699 on: June 21, 2014, 02:21:20 AM »

You could just be unlucky and SHI can't deal with super-heavy bombers. I would think that having your main capital guns capable of tracking and hitting a large bomber would, maybe, fix it for you but that's probably going to decrease efficiency against other capital targets.
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Arakash

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #700 on: June 21, 2014, 04:34:44 AM »

You could just be unlucky and SHI can't deal with super-heavy bombers. I would think that having your main capital guns capable of tracking and hitting a large bomber would, maybe, fix it for you but that's probably going to decrease efficiency against other capital targets.
I might give an example so its a bit more clear if im making some kind of tactical mistake here.

I just entered a fight with on my side:
2x Charbydis Carrier (quite combat capable)
4x Skinwalker Space Sup Fighter Wing (I usually only have 2 wings, but doubled it to try and counter the drones)
Tartarus Heavy Cruiser
Mimir Battlecruiser

vs:
Jackhammer Battleship
2x Floh Experimental Drone Wing
4x Drache Drone Wing

The Battleship has the flight decks, so its not like i can easily/quickly destroy it so it cant rearm bombers.

The bombers were the first to arrive and i set my fighters on them immediately.
They wernt able to stop the bombers from killing my two carriers and the combat cruiser.
I attempted to assault the Battleship/Carrier alone with my Battleship, but i was struggling to do so solo especially with bombs flying around everywhere.
I did manage to dodge the bombs longer than my cruisers, but I eventually hit one and it was pretty much over.

Its amusing to note that the Jackhammer Battleship did very little, if any of the damage. It didnt even get into range before the cruisers were dead.

I think ill try your suggestion and modify my gun loadout significantly.
If that doesnt work i guess ill just have to mass frigates/fighters and see if that improves my chances.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 05:40:59 AM by Arakash »
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HELMUT

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #701 on: June 21, 2014, 07:48:28 AM »

Honestly that Neutrino fleet seems specially designed to screw yours. 4 cruisers and 1 capital ships are exactly the kind of stuff the Drache eat every breakfast. The Jackhammer too is very good at taking down big targets with its phased array cannon so challenging it in a 1v1 with your Mimir is a bad idea.

With 4 wings, no way your Skinwalkers will be able to intercept the same amount of those frigate sized bombers. Plus the 2 Flohs on top of that. Your two Charybdis have a total of four launch bays, you can easily support nearly twice as many fighters. I think MShadowy buffed the Neriad as an interceptor, it's also bloody fast, might be a good idea to try those.

As you said, having more fighters will help a lot against Neutrinos. Not sure about frigates, Drache will ignore them but the Floh's pulsed beam cannon will rip them open.
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Arakash

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #702 on: June 21, 2014, 09:21:36 AM »

Thanks for the advice. Ill check out the other fighters you mentioned and see if i have any success with them and a larger number of them.
By the look of it i also need to revise a bit on how many fighters i can safely deploy.

On the Jackhammer, its a bit of a long story but here it is.

tbh the Jackhammer wasn't that much of a problem in that fight compared to the bombers. The Mimir is very maneuverable with its phase skimmer and the mods ive got on it. The Jackhammer was having a lot of difficulty keeping up and even turning to face me.
The Mimir reminds me a lot of flying the Medusa, which i loved to bits in earlier versions, so i can fly it fairly well.

The thing that eventually killed my Mimir(after bombers had promptly killed the cruisers) was a combination of long range missiles from the Jackhammer and bomb after bomb after bomb from the drones.
I couldn't dodge every single bomb and if i just let one hit my hull it would only take 3 shots to kill me.
So even with a phase skimmer and dodging, i eventually took a hit to the shields. When it hit and even with low flux i immediately overloaded, i couldn't phase skim anymore, so the next bomb and volley of missiles killed me.

Long story short i wasn't feeling threatened by the Jackhammer tbh. Compared to the Bombers, which were the ones that actually killed me, it was far less dangerous.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 09:34:35 AM by Arakash »
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FlashFrozen

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #703 on: June 21, 2014, 11:15:22 AM »

It might of been hard to see with all the junk on my main post, but near the bottom I had tips for adding ships in exerelin, conversely it also means you can reduce/remove ships from the exerelin generated fleets,

"
- TIPS For Adding ships to Exerelin -

For exerelin I guess the easiest way would be to edit mods/Exerelin/data/world/factions/neutrinocorp.faction

Edit with notepad, wordpad, notepad++, anything that can change/add letters in.

Scroll down until you see the fleet listings, you're going to change what ships are delivered to the station
Code
	"fleetCompositions":{
"exerelinGenericFleet":{
            "displayName":"Generic Fleet",
            "maxFleetPoints":140,
            "daysWorthOfSupplies":[30, 50],
            "lyWorthOfFuel":[40, 60],
            "extraCrewPercent":[80, 80],
            "marinesPercent":[20, 20],
            "ships":{
                "neutrino_colossus_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_hildolfr_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_banshee_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_bansheenorn_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_jackhammer_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_jackhammer2_standard":[0, 1],

                "neutrino_grinder_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_lathe_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_maul_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_nirvash_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_theend_standard":[0, 1],

                "neutrino_sledgehammer_assault":[0, 2],
                "neutrino_vice_assault":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_vice_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_hacksaw_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_hacksaw_assault":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_piledriver_standard":[0, 2],

                "neutrino_singularity_balanced":[0, 2],
                "neutrino_relativity_standard":[0, 2],
                "neutrino_causality_standard":[0, 2],
                "neutrino_polarity_standard":[0, 2],

                "neutrino_drohne_wing":[0, 4],
                "neutrino_schwarzgeist_wing":[0, 4],
                "neutrino_floh_wing":[0, 4],
                "neutrino_drache_wing":[0, 4],
            },
        },

add in this line:

Code
"neutrino_unsung_standard":[0, 1],

near the bottom
Code
	"fleetCompositions":{
"exerelinGenericFleet":{
            "displayName":"Generic Fleet",
            "maxFleetPoints":140,
            "daysWorthOfSupplies":[30, 50],
            "lyWorthOfFuel":[40, 60],
            "extraCrewPercent":[80, 80],
            "marinesPercent":[20, 20],
            "ships":{
                "neutrino_colossus_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_hildolfr_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_banshee_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_bansheenorn_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_jackhammer_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_jackhammer2_standard":[0, 1],

                "neutrino_grinder_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_lathe_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_maul_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_nirvash_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_theend_standard":[0, 1],

                "neutrino_sledgehammer_assault":[0, 2],
                "neutrino_vice_assault":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_vice_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_hacksaw_standard":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_hacksaw_assault":[0, 1],
                "neutrino_piledriver_standard":[0, 2],

                "neutrino_singularity_balanced":[0, 2],
                "neutrino_relativity_standard":[0, 2],
                "neutrino_causality_standard":[0, 2],
                "neutrino_polarity_standard":[0, 2],

                "neutrino_drohne_wing":[0, 4],
                "neutrino_schwarzgeist_wing":[0, 4],
                "neutrino_floh_wing":[0, 4],
                "neutrino_drache_wing":[0, 4],

               "neutrino_unsung_standard":[0, 1],
            },
        },
AAanndd your done!, note this is only a chance for every ship on the list, so give it some time.
"


Change the line of the max number of bombers that can spawn:

                "neutrino_drache_wing":[0, 4],

                                                     ^
To either 1 ( if you still want a bit of challenge/fun without being overkill:

                "neutrino_drache_wing":[0, 1],

Or just remove the line completely.

Good luck :)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 11:19:26 AM by FlashFrozen »
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Dranume

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Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.75doubleD)
« Reply #704 on: June 21, 2014, 11:59:26 AM »

Any idea on why Neutrino Corp ships have such a crappy CR retention and recovery?
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