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[intrinsic_parity]

I've always felt like 1 fighter bays are kinda pointless, especially on an already OP tight ship. Even if you give more OP, I feel like it's better to put that OP into the weapons anyway. Cheap fighters die a lot and need replacement rate, and you're never going to invest in the replacement rate to make the fighters actually do anything outside the first wave or two...

[SCC]

Between a single Ion Beam for 12 OP and a Xyphos wing for 15 OP, you can bet I'll pick Xyphos. It will make the medium energies even less useful than previously, though.

[intrinsic_parity]

Yeah, I guess my dislike of single bays is probably strongly correlated with my undervaluing of xyphos LOL

[Thaago]

Wasps/sparks/talons also work pretty well in single bays as PD screen/anti-fighter/distractions, while a longbow will spew sabots - the main problem is getting the AI to not send the fighters away (forcing fighters to be 0 range support would be a nice toggle switch). If the ship has a bay, its a lot of value for the OP and there are none of the debuffs of converted hangar.

[Anvel]

Give Eagle +5 speed, reduce DP to 20 points and he's good to go.

[Wyvern]

Honestly, the xyphos wing is probably under-costed right now. At least, the best destroyer variants I've come up with of late have all involved s-modding in converted hangar and then installing a xyphos wing at 23 ordnance points.

[FooF]

As a second choice, could you give it a fighter bay? Vanilla cruisers don't have a 1 bay ship because I won't count the Venture's built-in mining pods.

I second this. I've always felt it should have one. That was actually the very first thing I did 11ish years ago when I first started modding lol. I don't think it really made sense before ships like the Champion existed, but now that change would make the Eagle the perfect option for a jack-of-all trades generalist cruiser.

Huh, now that you mention it, that's low-key perfect. Seriously. That would really separate it from the Champion and the overall lower damage-profile would fit because it can bring freaking bombers to the fight. Plus it wouldn't have the OP malus of Converted Flight Decks.

[SethMK]

As a second choice, could you give it a fighter bay? Vanilla cruisers don't have a 1 bay ship because I won't count the Venture's built-in mining pods.

I second this. I've always felt it should have one. That was actually the very first thing I did 11ish years ago when I first started modding lol. I don't think it really made sense before ships like the Champion existed, but now that change would make the Eagle the perfect option for a jack-of-all trades generalist cruiser.

Huh, now that you mention it, that's low-key perfect. Seriously. That would really separate it from the Champion and the overall lower damage-profile would fit because it can bring freaking bombers to the fight. Plus it wouldn't have the OP malus of Converted Flight Decks.

I agree. Plus the puns you can get with an eagle attacking with its talons or class would be amusing. Although I'd probably toss in a different option depending on what I'm configuring by the eagle for. Heck if strapped for OP even the 0OP mining drones have a use. I love tossing them into converted hangers on destroyers simply to soak hits for more valuable craft... Then again I am fine of all the drones due to no lost crew when they go boom.

[IonDragonX]

Then again I am fine of all the drones due to no lost crew when they go boom.

That's why I like Wasps. I worry less about the cruiser's PD and let them handle it.

[Alex]

Hmm - in the name of avoiding (or at least mitigating) power creep, wouldn't the Responsible thing to do here be dialing back the Eradicator, Fury, and perhaps the Champion, a slight bit? Not something I'd want to do now, regardless, but those ships are very much meant to be balanced against the Eagle. As noted, it's a jack of all trades which makes it a pretty useful balance center point to try to work around.

[SafariJohn]

Probably Even with that, I think Eagle/Falcon could use a few little tweaks to be more enjoyable. As Delta_of_Isaire pointed out: Conquest is almost as fast as Eagle with way more firepower.

[IonDragonX]

Hmm - in the name of avoiding (or at least mitigating) power creep, wouldn't the Responsible thing to do here be dialing back the Eradicator, Fury, and perhaps the Champion, a slight bit?

Maybe later? I think this overall discussion is about the obsolescence of anti-synergetic mount types. Every new ship that is added to SS accelerates any obsolescence that has been unaddressed. 3 M Ballistic hardpoint mounts + 3 M Energy turret mounts is not synergetic because it divides many of the officer skills & hullmods into 50% normal effect.

[Thaago]

Hmm - in the name of avoiding (or at least mitigating) power creep, wouldn't the Responsible thing to do here be dialing back the Eradicator, Fury, and perhaps the Champion, a slight bit?

Maybe later? I think this overall discussion is about the obsolescence of anti-synergetic mount types. Every new ship that is added to SS accelerates any obsolescence that has been unaddressed. 3 M Ballistic hardpoint mounts + 3 M Energy turret mounts is not synergetic because it divides many of the officer skills & hullmods into 50% normal effect.

Its pretty new that the mixed mount types are a problem via skills, but it is now a downside yeah. On the ballistic ships I can boost both my main guns and PD with BWM, and on an energy ship same thing with EWM, but on the Champion and Eagle I would want both (or perhaps neither and go for other skills that are more niche). The bigger issue for me  thats always been there is that the energy mounts are far back so lose range on top of being 600 for hard flux. On a Falcon I can get in and knife fight with them (well, 600*ITU - offset) but Eagles aren't as mobile, so they are mostly limited to the beams if they want to actually engage at 'cruiser' range.

[Alex]

They are mostly limited to beams, yeah. But on the flipside, this isn't exactly a problem for balance, is it? It's more or less just a feature of the ship, and, yeah, there's less variety in terms of what those mounts offer to that specific ship, but that's all. It doesn't seem like something that needs "fixing".

[Histidine]

Hmm - in the name of avoiding (or at least mitigating) power creep, wouldn't the Responsible thing to do here be dialing back the Eradicator, Fury, and perhaps the Champion, a slight bit? Not something I'd want to do now, regardless, but those ships are very much meant to be balanced against the Eagle. As noted, it's a jack of all trades which makes it a pretty useful balance center point to try to work around.

Well it kinda depends on who the outliers are. Do people feel that other cruisers are balanced with destroyers and capital ships that a player might choose to use instead? (i.e. the destroyers and capitals serve as the balance anchors in this view)

My vague impression from this thread and elsewhere is that the answer is largely yes; Eradicator might need a nerf, but Fury's probably had enough already or more.