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Author Topic: A plea for balance  (Read 12997 times)

hairrorist

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A plea for balance
« on: April 23, 2012, 12:33:15 PM »

Modders,

All the sweat and time you've put into this game are commendable--it's great to see such a prolific modding community already developing before the game is even released.  This kind of community generated content is what keeps a game on hard drives for years after release.  I salute you all!

I've been poking around with the Mish-mash mod lately and there is but one small problem.  Almost universally, modded ships are far more powerful than vanilla ships.  This is fine if you are planning a self-contained universe with multiple factions, but if the intent is to extend vanilla play, creating unbalanced ships will actually make the game less fun in the long run.  Not only is player ship choice narrowed, but there may be more unforeseen gameplay ramifications once multiple star systems and faction warfare become more prevalent.  Feel free to ignore this advice, but the mods that succeed and have long and successful lives, the ones that keep people playing for years, pay careful attention to balancing the content they add with the vanilla content of the game.  I realize that most of these mods are still in alpha or beta and are not considered finished products yet, but keep this in mind while you hone them into perfection.  It's more fun to design superships than it is to play with them!

Happy modding everyone!
Hairrorist
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Upgradecap

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 12:36:00 PM »

Remember, some mods which are aiming for TCs (Such as Thieis acendency, ironclads, TimCORP) Will not require vanlilla balance as they balance against themselves. :)
Though i intend to keep the vanilla factions in my TC ;)
Go figure.
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K-64

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 12:46:40 PM »

I can't speak for the rest of the modders, but with Trade Scavengers, I am attempting to keep it balanced with vanilla stuff. A large part of getting mod elements balanced is listening to the feedback that you are given. Quite often people will say "XYZ is waaayyy overpowered, FIX IT!!!" without giving indication as to how it's overpowered. I'm not saying everyone does, far from it, it's just that it's incredibly difficult to fix things if the problem isn't described.
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Upgradecap

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2012, 12:47:57 PM »

I can't speak for the rest of the modders, but with Trade Scavengers, I am attempting to keep it balanced with vanilla stuff. A large part of getting mod elements balanced is listening to the feedback that you are given. Quite often people will say "XYZ is waaayyy overpowered, FIX IT!!!" without giving indication as to how it's overpowered. I'm not saying everyone does, far from it, it's just that it's incredibly difficult to fix things if the problem isn't described.

So you're supposed to listen to them and not increase it? Aha........
(JOKING ;D ;D)
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hairrorist

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2012, 01:04:07 PM »

Yeah, I realize balance is one of those somewhat ethereal qualities that no one will ever be in complete agreement on--I'm just suggesting that modders keep it in mind, unless, as mentioned, they're aiming for a self-contained TC.

Frigates with double or more the hull and armor of vanilla with high speed and high point totals, fighters with stats similar to vanilla frigates, or medium weapon mounts, etc.  These are the things that should be tweaked.
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K-64

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2012, 01:09:14 PM »

I'm not so opposed to a single medium mount on heavy fighters. So long as they have quite a penalty for having such a weapon. And it'd have to be a rather weak one. fighters touting assault chainguns would be rather iffy for me
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BillyRueben

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2012, 01:12:23 PM »

Aw, come on. Who wouldn't want to see six wasps mounted with tachyon lances?
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Sunfire

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012, 01:17:38 PM »

I'm not so opposed to a single medium mount on heavy fighters. So long as they have quite a penalty for having such a weapon. And it'd have to be a rather weak one. fighters touting assault chainguns would be rather iffy for me

Um, what if a mini-mod that I might or might not have been a huge part of has a bomber which uses assault chaingun, but the only carrier the faction has is only in their largest fleets and on top of that the bomber is rare, is that ok?
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Dante80

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012, 01:19:19 PM »

The best way to make mods more balanced is to provide feedback to the mod creators. Many do not have the time to extensively test a ship they release, or test how the AI utilizes it. Thus, specific user feedback, especially about balance issues is both welcome and highly sought after.  ;)
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K-64

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 01:20:47 PM »

I'm not so opposed to a single medium mount on heavy fighters. So long as they have quite a penalty for having such a weapon. And it'd have to be a rather weak one. fighters touting assault chainguns would be rather iffy for me

Um, what if a mini-mod that I might or might not have been a huge part of has a bomber which uses assault chaingun, but the only carrier the faction has is only in their largest fleets and on top of that the bomber is rare, is that ok?

What other downsides does the bomber have? Because that is quite a powerful weapon for such a craft
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Sunfire

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 01:21:51 PM »

Um, there will only be one or two a fleet and they aren't very maneuverable, plus they have a low flux capacity
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Uomoz

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 01:24:41 PM »

Uomoz's Corvus requirement is mostly: "vanilla balance".
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keptin

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2012, 01:25:51 PM »

Do you remember when you were 13 years old and when it came to choosing a weapon or superpower for pretend sword/gun battles or super soakers or whatever, everyone always went for the biggest and most badass ones?  It takes time to grow out of that mentality and realize having strengths AND weaknesses make for more dynamic play than simply being all powerful.  

With gaming communities comprised of such a large percentage of kids, its no surprise to find user mods unbalanced in favor of their own creations.

hairrorist

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2012, 01:26:45 PM »

The thing about balancing by cost or by rarity is that the player will always get the optimal crafts for a role.  Its just the nature of the game.
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Vandala

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Re: A plea for balance
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2012, 02:21:37 PM »

Do you remember when you were 13 years old and when it came to choosing a weapon or superpower for pretend sword/gun battles or super soakers or whatever, everyone always went for the biggest and most badass ones?  It takes time to grow out of that mentality and realize having strengths AND weaknesses make for more dynamic play than simply being all powerful.  

With gaming communities comprised of such a large percentage of kids, its no surprise to find user mods unbalanced in favor of their own creations.
I would make an exception with the IDF, the feeling of those ships is just right, the sounds, the graphics. I don't care how overpowered those things are, its just crazy fun to play like that once in a while.

Aw, come on. Who wouldn't want to see six wasps mounted with tachyon lances?
Oh god yes! Only use those at 4 fleet points a wing. RUN COWARDS!!
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