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Author Topic: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships  (Read 1016 times)

Kanjejou

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Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« on: December 04, 2021, 05:28:39 PM »

Condor, Wolf, Falcons(not the P version),Waufarer ect... do you use the missiles small slot at all?

I mean they arent particulary cheap in OP value dont reload between consecutiv battles and except the very specialised ones (sabots and torpedo) they tend to suck...they also suffer from running out of ammo very fast...

Personally i think they are or too costly or have too little ammo... those 8-10 OP (since they usually go by pair) could be used for extra flux or vents or a special mod...

why salmander reload in battle and not other missiles?
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Megas

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Re: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2021, 06:28:43 PM »

I might put Hammer racks on them (or Atropos if mounts are not friendly to dumb-fires like on Falcon) if they are hurt for OP.  I might spare 1 or 2 OP per mount, and Hammer rack is reasonably powerful and reliable for its price.  Condor, I might put a small Salamander to make use of its Fast Missile Racks, or just leave it unarmed since it is a carrier.

If the ship was something I just recovered from the enemy and I need to throw whatever weapons I recently looted to make it useful for auto-resolve or cheap disposable or temporary fodder for later battles, then I am not above throwing excess racks of whatever (Sabots or Harpoons) on it.  Auto-resolve does not care.
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Kohlenstoff

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Re: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2021, 06:29:46 PM »

If you use missles correctly, they are worth the slots. Frigates have low CR time so i'ts even more useful to have missles on them, than on larger ships.
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Thaago

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Re: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2021, 07:28:13 PM »

I always have OP for Reapers. For the others it depends on the ship:

Wolf: Absolutely, its missiles are a big part of its armament due to flux issues, plus the missile:DP ratio is good. Pretty much any missile is worth it though they all play different roles.
Falcon: Sabots are nice to help it punch up a bit, but it can mount kinetics so its not critical. I'll put Harpoons if I'm using a Harpoon fleet strategy, otherwise Reapers. The missile:DP ratio is not good, and the missiles aren't a major part of the ship's armament, so if I have a really good reason I'll skip the missiles for 4 more OP.
Wayfarer: The missile:DP ratio is good, so if I'm forced to use one I'll stick them on. The ships aren't very good though, so I try not to use them (I'd rather use a Mule if I want a combat-cargo hybrid).
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Kanjejou

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Re: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2021, 09:50:57 AM »

I always have OP for Reapers. For the others it depends on the ship:

Wolf: Absolutely, its missiles are a big part of its armament due to flux issues, plus the missile:DP ratio is good. Pretty much any missile is worth it though they all play different roles.
Falcon: Sabots are nice to help it punch up a bit, but it can mount kinetics so its not critical. I'll put Harpoons if I'm using a Harpoon fleet strategy, otherwise Reapers. The missile:DP ratio is not good, and the missiles aren't a major part of the ship's armament, so if I have a really good reason I'll skip the missiles for 4 more OP.
Wayfarer: The missile:DP ratio is good, so if I'm forced to use one I'll stick them on. The ships aren't very good though, so I try not to use them (I'd rather use a Mule if I want a combat-cargo hybrid).


Well Reaper are Torps and Sabots a specialised missiles... but I dont see much point in SRM, Breachers and the other missiles even on missile specialised ships if they dont have a large or multiple medium slots.
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Megas

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Re: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2021, 10:12:14 AM »

Swarmers do not have enough ammo for their impact.  At least they will get more ammo next release.

For how slow they are, Breach does not have enough range.  If fired at an enemy that is backing off, the Breaches become duds by the time they make contact.  A pity, because they would be super Swarmers if they had better range (more ammo and more damage).  If Breach were more useful, I would use them more as poor-man's Locusts due to their endurance.

Quote
but I dont see much point in SRM, Breachers and the other missiles even on missile specialised ships if they dont have a large or multiple medium slots.
Something like Aurora has a lot of small mounts... and no good anti-shield energy weapons.  If I want to rely on Sabots for anti-shield, I will cram Sabots on every orifice the ship has and use them liberally through the battle.  Aurora without Sabots and not built for maximum flux stats will have difficulty winning flux wars decisively against another cruiser (say, Eagle or Dominator).

Also, the 1 and 2 OP missiles can be decent padding on mounts if the ship has nothing better to do with OP (maybe because vents are already maxed and you cannot afford anything else.)
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Igncom1

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Re: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2021, 10:47:17 AM »

On larger ships like falcons or eagles two small missiles mounts is really not that expensive save for highly min-maxed builds.

On smaller ships like a lasher or wolf frigate, two small missile mounts can make or break any 1 on 1 or 1 on two engagement within their weight range.

A wave of harpoon missiles at the right time will turn a defeat into a victory. Sabot missiles absolutely annihilate smaller ships.
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Thaago

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Re: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2021, 11:14:27 AM »

Tbh all missiles are specialized missiles.

For a Wolf, Swarmers are excellent anti-frigate missiles that allow them to pressure enemies and overwhelm light PD: 8x100 HE damage is not very dangerous to larger ships, but to a frigate its a big punch. Their ammo will last for early game fights, but run out in the midgame unless the fleet is missile oriented in general. They don't do particularly well against heavy fighters, because a wing of heavy fighters has as much or more HP than a frigate, but they help some at least when part of a pack. (In general if a wolf is caught out alone vs 2 wings of enemy fighters, it runs or dies.)

Harpoons are for fighting slower destroyers and up as they don't have the speed for frigates, but they allow small ships to quickly kill big ships that overload without having to have line of sight, even if the enemy is backing away. They are decent 1v1, but shine as a fleet strategy, as they have the range to 'gang up' from multiple ships.

Breaches split the difference, but aren't all that great. They are thankfully getting buffed though!

Salamanders are for harassment, distraction, and locking down mobile enemies. IMO they are good on the outskirts of a battle where the PD density isn't very high, but just get shot down in the thick of things. Surprisingly good vs Remnants because they have narrow shields and rely on speed.
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Flying Birdy

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Re: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2021, 03:44:37 AM »

If you use missles correctly, they are worth the slots. Frigates have low CR time so i'ts even more useful to have missles on them, than on larger ships.

I have the exact same reasoning. Player-piloted frigates definitely need a reaper or a hammer if you want to be able to bring down an armoured cruiser within a reasonable frame of time. Spending 60 seconds of peak performance endlessly hitting a venture is just not worth it for me. Even on lashers with two assault guns, I find reapers to be basically mandatory as assault guns do not bring down ventures or dominators fast enough.

Utility ships (condors, wayfarers, mules) benefit even more in the sense that I want to get as much out of them as possible before they get blown up in short order. They are CR limited in the sense that they die rather quickly. Furthermore, I don't expect the AI to actually be able to do anything with these low-flux-stat ships other than soak damage; let's face it, a wayfarer or a condor is useless no matter how many vents you give the AI and a mule is just a useless brick in the hands of the AI.
Giving these utility ships some missiles at least allows them to actually do something rather than nothing at all.
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Kanjejou

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Re: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2021, 04:59:24 AM »

Condor isnt much of a utility ship and more like the most DP efficient carrier in game.

Venture is an utility ship, shepperd, apoge and maybe mules are utility ships because they give things for outside of combat, and arent equiped to help much in combat, low def speed or armement for their size, even if apoge is a bit of a dangerous boy.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 06:00:41 AM by Kanjejou »
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Maeleth

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Re: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2021, 06:51:15 AM »

Basically never, yeah. Most of the time I'd even ignore a double small/single medium missile slots (Hammerhead, Shrike, etc.) for the sake of better survivability, deeper flux pool, stronger weapons or whatever the ship in question requires to stay competent at its given role.

Most of the time your mentally challenged comrades would dump all available ordnance into the first thing they encounter, while the battle lines are still forming and slower, more dangerous ships taking their sweet time to arrive. If this does not happen for some reason, the following list of events usually happens:
1) Missiles miss their intended target
2) Missiles hit the intended target, cause it to overload and promptly retreat to a safe&secure position behind friendlies
3) Missiles get blown up by PD/interceptors/random shots/grav beams/what have you
4) In case of guided missiles, they tend to overkill their target and waste multiple racks of ammo on multiple ships just to deal with a single Mule or whatnot
5) Everything goes according to plan, target is crippled or dead

It all comes down to one simple question of "what is the probability of AI successfully using a missile and why would I gamble on this chance instead of getting a stronger, more reliable vessel?".
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Thaago

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Re: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2021, 07:02:59 AM »

The answer to the question is fast kills and the law of averages. There's a decent chance of an individual missile being completely wasted, absolutely, but the ones that aren't wasted have a large impact on the battle because getting kills fast is extremely valuable. Its doubly so because the AI does much better when they are the ones outnumbering vs the other way around, so getting a few kills with missiles helps to get more kills etc.
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Linnis

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Re: Do you often use small missiles slots on OP starved ships
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2021, 06:00:23 PM »

Yeah. Missle has a big impact but lacks in prolonged engagements.

So in eng game battles where snowballing has a real bog effect missles become quite good. Especially on frigates.
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