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[Paragon Bane]

Is there any way to make their weapons drop-only?

In the current default setting you will only get empty hiver bp in exploration yet their weapons can be purchased from illegal arms dealers.

[Dazs]

So, gonna chime in here as a new player: I uninstalled them after 20 hours because they are ridiculously broken.

I would like to start my reply by first thanking you for taking the time to post your concerns.

They are a difficult faction to fight, yes, but not impossible.  Their weapons are 3-4 bars ABOVE everything else I've fought in the game, including other modded factions AND the Remnants.  The weapons combined with the simple fact they dont send out *small* fleets...only MASSIVE (hitting the ship/fleet limit) capital ship heavy(on avg 6+ cap ships per fleet) fleets also makes them a royal pain to deal with, but these fleets can be countered.

This is by design. Initially I had them send out weaker fleets and they were sniped by the remnant before they even reached the core worlds. I needed to increase their power in order for them to be a threat to an entire sector that hates them and constantly invades them. I am not done with the mod by any stretch and am always trying to fine tune it and I take your concerns to heart.

None of that was why I removed the mod.  I removed it because they annihilated many all the core worlds with bombardments/take overs and then absolutely bent the economy over a table and  rammed a ping-pong paddly in paddle first.

There is a built in time limit before they can start their invasions to give the player a build up period, however they cannot be ignored passively after that. The key to keeping them from spreading is to help defend systems they are invading and not just leaving it to the NPC fleets to handle them. Their invasions are announced and can be tracked. The way I keep their economic impact in check when I play against them is looking for their trade fleets and taking them out before they reach their destination. They are meant to be an active threat that the npcs can get overwhelmed by and the player has to fight against them to make the difference. 

I attached 3 snips of what the market has been like for the last 16 hours of gameplay.  In the colony tab they have the largest "market" in the sector by over double the next.

I have their system economy buffed because initially they have no trading partners and they need the income to field their fleets. The issue is usually because as they colonize and take more systems, their economy buffs exponentially because now they can trade with those taken over systems. I am currently looking into trying to keep their power levels high but manageable but also limit their economic impact. I looked into a couple posts on the economy but have yet to figure a way to do that. I'll try reaching out to other mod makers and see if an answer can be found there.

This faction isnt one of those "Starts in a corner spreading steadily while still playing by the rules" like I thought it was gonna be, its more of a "We kill randomly and sporadically and then have some cheat level economy that lets up maintain an unrealistic tempo".  Seriously, they flew across the sector once (60+LY) to bombard a *BRAND NEW COLONY* I had just set up... I was not pleased.

I am curious at what time stamp did this happen? You state initially that you played against them for 20 hours. In my games I can usually head off their invasion fleets within a couple hours of play and build up and do not colonize a system until I have a fleet that can defend it.

I find your feedback constructive but I do "hear" your frustration. My focus in the last patch was making them more ascetically pleasing but in the one I am working on next is a balance patch so any details given is very helpful.

[Dazs]

Is there any way to make their weapons drop-only?

In the current default setting you will only get empty hiver bp in exploration yet their weapons can be purchased from illegal arms dealers.

I do have them blacklisted on the Prism Freeport trading list so I know they will not show there. As to arms dealers I am not sure if you are referring to the base SS dealers or one of the mod added dealers like SCY's Amity Freeport or Industrial Evolution has (both of which I also have a blacklist for) so if there is another mod that has them that I am unaware of I'll look into blocking it. When you say an empty BP I am not sure what you mean by that. I have gotten their BP from research stations and in fighting them and was able to learn the designs like any other BP.

Thank you for your feedback and any clarity you could give would be appreciated so I can better answer your questions.

[RenegadeCEO]

This faction isnt one of those "Starts in a corner spreading steadily while still playing by the rules" like I thought it was gonna be, its more of a "We kill randomly and sporadically and then have some cheat level economy that lets up maintain an unrealistic tempo".  Seriously, they flew across the sector once (60+LY) to bombard a *BRAND NEW COLONY* I had just set up... I was not pleased.

I am curious at what time stamp did this happen? You state initially that you played against them for 20 hours. In my games I can usually head off their invasion fleets within a couple hours of play and build up and do not colonize a system until I have a fleet that can defend it.

I find your feedback constructive but I do "hear" your frustration. My focus in the last patch was making them more ascetically pleasing but in the one I am working on next is a balance patch so any details given is very helpful.

Was about 10-15ish hours in (time just *poofs* when I play this game).  Found a nice star system with a tern world and a blackhole nearby 4ly away with frozen worlds so i was starting to setup a nice little industry and before i even got the first industry up they saturation bombarded it.

I was also not playing as any of the core factions, I was playing as the UAF (The Anime Cat People Mod with sweet ships) so I started in the lower left and it made countering hiver fleets *incredibly* time/resource intensive. 

I was honestly expecting an enemy more like the Scourge from Stellaris where they're more an end game faction that comes in *really* late, but that was just my noob ass reading the description and having not played the game before.  I'd love to re-active this mod if you can get this whole "steam-rolling the economy" problem sorted. 

It was fun luring them into traps and then salvaging their weapons and turning their own weapons against them on UAF ships   I had a cruiser frame kitted out with some of their stupidly powerful energy cannons and it was going toe-to-toe with their ships every battle (cept the dreadnaughts... god those are chonky).

[Dazs]

Was about 10-15ish hours in (time just *poofs* when I play this game).  Found a nice star system with a tern world and a blackhole nearby 4ly away with frozen worlds so i was starting to setup a nice little industry and before i even got the first industry up they saturation bombarded it.

Thank you for the time stamp clarification, that helps. And yes SS can be a Zen experience and I've looked up at the clock myself wondering where the time went

I was also not playing as any of the core factions, I was playing as the UAF (The Anime Cat People Mod with sweet ships) so I started in the lower left and it made countering hiver fleets *incredibly* time/resource intensive. 

Hmm, that is interesting. Personally, I have not played as UAF as my aesthetic is low tech sort of scuffed and beaten up ships so I cannot say from first hand experience but I have read on the Hiver reddit threads that UAF is one of the Mod factions that are OP enough to stand up to them. Another one I have read and experienced is that Xahn Empire https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17972.0 is a good one to have installed as a NPC faction since their system is directly in the Hiver invasion path and they do a pretty good job of defending the sector. Plus it is a well done mod and I recommend it either way.

I was honestly expecting an enemy more like the Scourge from Stellaris where they're more an end game faction that comes in *really* late,

Oh my talk about a great time sink, Stellaris and I go way back

but that was just my noob ass reading the description and having not played the game before. 

Don't beat yourself up about it, I am flattered that you chose to add them in your first playthrough. I will write a better description on the main page that they are a boss faction that you do have time to prepare for but one that the player has to take an active role in defeating them starting around mid-game and can be an end goal achievement if you do not have many mod factions to help.

I'd love to re-active this mod if you can get this whole "steam-rolling the economy" problem sorted. 

I would recommend playing a few games without them to get a better feel of the game and more relaxed pace then when you feel you would like a challenge, well they are waiting for you....

It was fun luring them into traps and then salvaging their weapons and turning their own weapons against them on UAF ships   I had a cruiser frame kitted out with some of their stupidly powerful energy cannons and it was going toe-to-toe with their ships every battle (cept the dreadnaughts... god those are chonky).

The Emperor is a beast ship for sure, chonky lol I like that description. I have it's deployment points set very high so it won't have many escorts in order to make it manageable but if you see one in the incoming fleet and you don't have some big boys on your own, running is not the worst idea

Well thank you again for your clarifications and giving me the idea to better describe them. I am a bit backlogged on mod updates at the moment but CFT should have an update by the weekend then I have a release schedule of my other mods after. Hiver is sort of last on the list since I just spent so much time on it and neglected my other mods. Soooo, figure it may be a couple weeks before I can dedicate the time to investigate and implement an economy re-work for them but do know that it is on the punch list and will be released eventually(tm)

[Kris_xK]

I moved UAF home systems into the path of the Hiver Invasions fleets for when I want a more relaxed game and its worked quite well. Its a bit of a dance to keep them far enough away from the core to not get distracted by the Legios, but they're very good at occupying the Hivers while I finish off the Heg.

Im so far removed from vanilla that I'm unsure if this is Vanilla or a mod conflict, but I do constantly get a) Bounty missions and B) Rep Gain from destroying hostile-to-hiver fleets. While its not a an earth shattering problem and can be resolved with a quick setreputation command, it does feel weird to be +80 Rep with the Hivers after finishing off a different villain faction.

[Dazs]

I moved UAF home systems into the path of the Hiver Invasions fleets for when I want a more relaxed game and its worked quite well. Its a bit of a dance to keep them far enough away from the core to not get distracted by the Legios, but they're very good at occupying the Hivers while I finish off the Heg.

Yea that is a strategy I have read on reddit. UAF is very strong and can go toe to toe with them apparently. I should give it an install at some point and see for myself.

Im so far removed from vanilla that I'm unsure if this is Vanilla or a mod conflict,

OH yea I am moded to the gills myself, I actually recommend people have several faction mods installed before trying to take on Hivers, they will roll over the vanilla factions.

but I do constantly get a) Bounty missions and B) Rep Gain from destroying hostile-to-hiver fleets. While its not a an earth shattering problem and can be resolved with a quick setreputation command, it does feel weird to be +80 Rep with the Hivers after finishing off a different villain faction.

Hmm I am scratching my head on that one, I have all kinds of rep blockers in to prevent a rep gain that high. As to them posting bounties, that is because I have them set as a "playable" faction so they will invade and colonize, with that comes some things like bounties that I would rather they did not but that is sort of out my hands. I have code that Harmful Mechanic nicely donated that should auto reset at neutral and go back to vengeful even if you get rep from a bounty to that's a new one for the to-do list.

Thank you for the input, I appreciate it. I just put out a JYD update and CFT is next on the punch list but I should have some free time end of next week to deep dive the issues that have cropped up for Hiver. I swear I am going to get this mod correct 100% (one day)

[Volsungare]

Is there any way to make their weapons drop-only?

In the current default setting you will only get empty hiver bp in exploration yet their weapons can be purchased from illegal arms dealers.

I do have them blacklisted on the Prism Freeport trading list so I know they will not show there. As to arms dealers I am not sure if you are referring to the base SS dealers or one of the mod added dealers like SCY's Amity Freeport or Industrial Evolution has (both of which I also have a blacklist for) so if there is another mod that has them that I am unaware of I'll look into blocking it. When you say an empty BP I am not sure what you mean by that. I have gotten their BP from research stations and in fighting them and was able to learn the designs like any other BP.

Thank you for your feedback and any clarity you could give would be appreciated so I can better answer your questions.

I have seen Hiver ships (usually the big haulers plus one or two other ships) in every Illegal Arms Dealer in bars (base game). I honestly haven't checked weapons as I picked up every (I believe) Hiver weapon pack in the first 3-4 hours of gameplay from exploration, along with most of the ships... "Vanilla" install of the mod. Not sure if this would be possible, but I suggest unless the user flips the mod to be a playable faction (per your post), the weapons/blueprint packs are removed from loot/arms dealer tables and the ships are set to unsalvageable. Alien bio tech and all.

[Dazs]

I have seen Hiver ships (usually the big haulers plus one or two other ships) in every Illegal Arms Dealer in bars (base game). I honestly haven't checked weapons as I picked up every (I believe) Hiver weapon pack in the first 3-4 hours of gameplay from exploration, along with most of the ships... "Vanilla" install of the mod. Not sure if this would be possible, but I suggest unless the user flips the mod to be a playable faction (per your post), the weapons/blueprint packs are removed from loot/arms dealer tables and the ships are set to unsalvageable. Alien bio tech and all.

I'll look into it in more depth when I can. I just got out a JYD update and am working on a CFT one released hopefully by the weekend. Once that is done and I am caught up with r/l stuff, I *should* have some time to go over all the notes I have complied from player feedback such as yours and make a punch list to work on for Hiver. I cannot say at what time I can have a Hiver update out since some of the notes require some deep diving and until I get to it it would be hard to give a time frame. Just know that your concern is on my to-do and a I thank you for the update, details matter in an investigation (you get the reference I give you a prize:))

As a temp solution I recommend you enable the two optional files that make Ships and Weapons unrecoverable for players. The instructions are on the forum OP under spoilers. That *should* block arms dealers form selling them but I have not tested that so perhaps? (tm)

[Volsungare]

Can do. I did see another potential option for the bombardment. I went to bombard a pirate base to wipe it out and noticed the Hivers and MVS factions had such an intense hatred they would overlook the atrocity... Not sure if that is something you could set for the other factions?

[Dazs]

Can do. I did see another potential option for the bombardment. I went to bombard a pirate base to wipe it out and noticed the Hivers and MVS factions had such an intense hatred they would overlook the atrocity... Not sure if that is something you could set for the other factions?

I currently have them flagged as caring about atrocities as a way of keeping the player hatred flowing. However if you are already hated by Hivers then there is a a point where they could not hate you more than Vengeful so bomb away! I am not sure what you mean by setting it for other factions though so some clarity on that point would be appreciated.

[Volsungare]

Can do. I did see another potential option for the bombardment. I went to bombard a pirate base to wipe it out and noticed the Hivers and MVS factions had such an intense hatred they would overlook the atrocity... Not sure if that is something you could set for the other factions?

I currently have them flagged as caring about atrocities as a way of keeping the player hatred flowing. However if you are already hated by Hivers then there is a a point where they could not hate you more than Vengeful so bomb away! I am not sure what you mean by setting it for other factions though so some clarity on that point would be appreciated.

Sorry for the late reply. I was wondering if it was possible to somehow set the other factions to detest hivers so they would overlook orbital bombardments against the hivers.

On a separate note: I believe I found a bug. I had unlocked the hiver blueprints (everything except wings and small ships) from research station finds. But there is no BioTech category in weapons for me to manufacture the weapons on my colonies, the ships (and fighters when I tested that) show up fine. I planned on tweaking the files for the next game but this game I am kind of just going nuts for fun.

Edit: The weapons show up fine for arms dealers.

[Dazs]

Sorry for the late reply. I was wondering if it was possible to somehow set the other factions to detest hivers so they would overlook orbital bombardments against the hivers.

Not a problem, I appreciate the clarity, it helps. Well I have the hivers hate everyone and they are set to an "Evil" temperament that all the "good" and "neutral" factions will automatically hate them but the "evil" factions like Legio seem to like them at first. I plan to a deep dive on Hivers this weekend I opened a good block of time to do some research. Of course Alex just posted some dev notes so some of that time will be trying to prepare for what's next for SS.

On a separate note: I believe I found a bug.

Found a bug? of course you did they are an insectoid race!  

I had unlocked the hiver blueprints (everything except wings and small ships) from research station finds. But there is no BioTech category in weapons for me to manufacture the weapons on my colonies, the ships (and fighters when I tested that) show up fine. I planned on tweaking the files for the next game but this game I am kind of just going nuts for fun.

Quick clarity question, are you using the Industrial Evolution mod for manufacturing?

Edit: The weapons show up fine for arms dealers.

Looking into how the arms dealers work is part of my punch list for the weekend. I just got out a CJHM update out and I need to slap together a hotfix for CFT tomorrow but I do plan to have the Hiver's economy issues ironed out by Monday.

Thank you for the update

[Volsungare]

Sorry for the late reply. I was wondering if it was possible to somehow set the other factions to detest hivers so they would overlook orbital bombardments against the hivers.

Not a problem, I appreciate the clarity, it helps. Well I have the hivers hate everyone and they are set to an "Evil" temperament that all the "good" and "neutral" factions will automatically hate them but the "evil" factions like Legio seem to like them at first. I plan to a deep dive on Hivers this weekend I opened a good block of time to do some research. Of course Alex just posted some dev notes so some of that time will be trying to prepare for what's next for SS.

On a separate note: I believe I found a bug.

Found a bug? of course you did they are an insectoid race!  

I had unlocked the hiver blueprints (everything except wings and small ships) from research station finds. But there is no BioTech category in weapons for me to manufacture the weapons on my colonies, the ships (and fighters when I tested that) show up fine. I planned on tweaking the files for the next game but this game I am kind of just going nuts for fun.

Quick clarity question, are you using the Industrial Evolution mod for manufacturing?

Edit: The weapons show up fine for arms dealers.

Looking into how the arms dealers work is part of my punch list for the weekend. I just got out a CJHM update out and I need to slap together a hotfix for CFT tomorrow but I do plan to have the Hiver's economy issues ironed out by Monday.

Thank you for the update

At least they don't suddenly show up late early game, deploy gates in two dozen systems, and then move said systems worth of resources back to their homeworld....

I am not currently using Industrial Evolution, but I plan to on my next game (probably after the next SS patch hits and the mods are updated). The only mods I am using that affect colonies (that I am aware of) are 'Nexerelin', 'Slightly Better Techmining', 'Modified Industry Requirements - No Pollution', and 'Dynamic Tariffs'. I have ~ 75 or so active mods currently.

Personally, I am in no rush for an update/bugfix since applying other recent mod updates would break my savegame. It currently looks like the Hivers have been curbstomped pretty hard and only have one homeworld remaining

[Dazs]

At least they don't suddenly show up late early game, deploy gates in two dozen systems, and then move said systems worth of resources back to their homeworld....

Nex put a time limit on when invasions can happen so you are fairly safe early game. Personally I find I have time to form an exploration fleet, amasses some wealth, find a decent planet to colonize and build up a defense fleet with some decent officers before they start invading in mass.

I am not currently using Industrial Evolution, but I plan to on my next game (probably after the next SS patch hits and the mods are updated). The only mods I am using that affect colonies (that I am aware of) are 'Nexerelin', 'Slightly Better Techmining', 'Modified Industry Requirements - No Pollution', and 'Dynamic Tariffs'. I have ~ 75 or so active mods currently.

That helps thanks again for taking the time to give even more clarity.

Personally, I am in no rush for an update/bugfix since applying other recent mod updates would break my savegame. It currently looks like the Hivers have been curbstomped pretty hard and only have one homeworld remaining

Well I do plan to do an update this weekend but after that unless there is a crash error or something that needs my attention, I plan to let all my mods sit tight until there is more information on the next SS release date. I looked over the Dev notes and it looks like SS is up for some major renovations and I am looking forward to it as a player but no so much as a mod creator (work work work)