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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 248944 times)

Amoebka

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #780 on: December 17, 2021, 11:13:47 PM »

Support Doctrine does synergize well... with Wolfpack Tactics  :P
Doesn't WT require an officer in the ship for bonuses to apply?
The idea is you put all your officers on frigates, and then you are left with a huge amount of DP that have to be filled with unofficered ships.
...Except in this use case, support doctrine is simply worse than automated ships with a bunch of gamma core remnant frigates. Same 3 skills, but you get to choose the right ones and they are all elite.
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Lucky33

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #781 on: December 17, 2021, 11:24:41 PM »

Support Doctrine does synergize well... with Wolfpack Tactics  :P

On a more serious note, I'd like to hear your opinion if 8 skillpoints (5 in tech, 3 in combat) is considered too costly for one additional non-automated ship with the performance of a level 5 officer.

Wolfpack Tactics doesn't provide direct benefits for the ships without officers.
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #782 on: December 17, 2021, 11:30:57 PM »

On another note, Tactical Drills give you +5% damage and some raiding bonuses. Crew Training gives you +15% max CR, which translates to +5% damage, +5% durability and +5% speed. Perhaps TD should focus on raiding entirely instead.

ubuntufreakdragon

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #783 on: December 18, 2021, 12:09:41 AM »

Did you change something about modding?
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5016.0
tells .ship is always replaced but in reality it's merged.

How about a phase_shrunt hullmod:
Instead of sending the ship out of phase attacks are sent partially out of phase, each hit is multiplied by 0.XX before armor comes in.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #784 on: December 18, 2021, 12:26:00 AM »

Support Doctrine does synergize well... with Wolfpack Tactics  :P
Doesn't WT require an officer in the ship for bonuses to apply?
The idea is you put all your officers on frigates, and then you are left with a huge amount of DP that have to be filled with unofficered ships.
...Except in this use case, support doctrine is simply worse than automated ships with a bunch of gamma core remnant frigates. Same 3 skills, but you get to choose the right ones and they are all elite.

Well every one of those firgates costs a story point or 2, right? Plus you don't have to have your unofficered ships be small frigates. Its a remarkably flexible skill where you can cheaply extract a lot of value from nearly any strategy that uses more than 9/11 ships.
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Lucky33

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #785 on: December 18, 2021, 12:38:14 AM »

You don't need a story point to change skills of the AI core and Gamma have three skills without full integration.
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Amoebka

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #786 on: December 18, 2021, 12:53:56 AM »

Plus you don't have to have your unofficered ships be small frigates. Its a remarkably flexible skill where you can cheaply extract a lot of value from nearly any strategy that uses more than 9/11 ships.
Same can be said about automated ships. There are destroyers and cruisers available.

Ultimately, support doctrine and automated ships do the same thing - boost your ships that don't have human officers. But the latter is much more flexible and seems better 100% of time.
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Lucky33

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #787 on: December 18, 2021, 01:07:15 AM »

And the thing is that you don't need a skill to boost your ships without human officer. You simply buy those officers. And place them in said ships. That's all.

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DaShiv

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #788 on: December 18, 2021, 03:19:31 AM »

Plus you don't have to have your unofficered ships be small frigates. Its a remarkably flexible skill where you can cheaply extract a lot of value from nearly any strategy that uses more than 9/11 ships.
Same can be said about automated ships. There are destroyers and cruisers available.

Unlike Radiants and Glimmers, Remnant destroyers and cruisers are unfortunately not worth using over human ships that don't badly waste your Automated Ships DP. There really should be more options when it comes to Automated Ships.
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GnomeVader

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #789 on: December 18, 2021, 07:06:44 AM »

Thank you
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #790 on: December 18, 2021, 07:14:58 AM »

And the thing is that you don't need a skill to boost your ships without human officer. You simply buy those officers. And place them in said ships. That's all.

Just out of curiosity, which mod is that interface from?

The Mercenary option is a good point.  The sustaining story point cost for Mercenaries has been dropped in half in 0.95.1a.  So in my example, 7 mercenary officers is only 3.5 story points and ~420k credits per cycle (albeit without any XP bonus after the 1st payment), which is probably sustainable end game.  Not sure how sustainable it would be prior to that.

For reference, my current play through at has the character at level 15 and in cycle 213 (so 7 cycles in), with 8 story points in the bank at the moment with ~12 million bonus XP, plus about 800,000 credits on hand, but a passive net income around 0 (fleet/colony upkeep offset by colony profits).  I'm basically at the point of ramping up Ordo farming and exploring the sector for Coronal Hypershunts and the like.  I have spent 24 story points on s-mods.  Another 16 or so on mentoring/eliting officer skills.  Finally another 10 on my colonies.  Plus a handful for escapes and other temporary effects.  So say 63 story points over 7 cycles, for about 9 story points per cycle.

Assuming I had hired 7 mercenary officers for the last 4 cycles (approximately half the play time), that would have put me back 14 story points and 1.6 million credits.

So while not free, mercenaries look at least doable (with some sacrifices made in other areas of long term growth) on double sized fleets (i.e. 16 ships) to me.  I feel like I'd be working extremely hard on the campaign map to sustain, say 14 mecenaries (7 out of 9 story points per cycle given this admittedly one off example), which would happen if you're trying to put  22-25 ships on the field.  Although perhaps I'm slow at earning story points.  I'd be curious to know what other people's story points per cycle look like.
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Lucky33

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #791 on: December 18, 2021, 07:34:47 AM »

https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=20836.0

You don't need more than 10 officers before getting into end-game full deployment battles.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #792 on: December 18, 2021, 07:38:22 AM »

I would hoard my OP for colonies after I s-mod my skills and fleet.  I have an empire fantasy, and that means giving my primary colonies bells-and-whistles with as many colony improvements as I can get.  2^13-1 is 8191 story points for one colony.

2^n costs mean I want to put all SP into colonies, after I am done with skills and ships.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2021, 07:40:09 AM by Megas »
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #793 on: December 18, 2021, 08:11:07 AM »

https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=20836.0

You don't need more than 10 officers before getting into end-game full deployment battles.

Thanks for the link, I appreciate it.

I agree you can get through early and mid-game without a full 10 officers given I typically run with only 8, and I take a while to build up to my optimal 8.  On the other hand, you can in theory have a 30 frigate fleet in under a cycle.  You don't need to do it, but it might be fun.  Admittedly, you don't need officers in every one of those frigates for it to be usable.  Of course in such a fleet support doctrine would be a significant buff, especially early on when your officers are merely level 2 or 3.  I feel the skill is about enabling a play style which is outside the ordinary.

I'm mostly arguing against making the skill apply to officered ships.  As then optimal play is to again keep within your officer limits.  It just becomes another variation of Best of the Best, improving your best ships by X% (simply by having X% more DP worth of best ships, as opposed to more OP per ship).

I don't know if the skill is strong enough as it stands, as I haven't played around with it yet, but it is clearly trying to encourage a play style outside typical optimal play (i.e. number of ships deployed is equal to number of officers on hand).  Switching it over to a general buff skill that applies to everything doesn't actually make it a "game changer".  It just makes the normal game, well, stronger.  Trying to make really wide fleets viable does make it a game changer, as I'd be don't think many players routinely deploy 25-30 ships in combat, simply because of the before mentioned power of officers.
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Lucky33

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #794 on: December 18, 2021, 08:40:49 AM »

I only provided an example of what "support" is supposed to mean. Addition, not replacement.
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