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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 248958 times)

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #750 on: December 17, 2021, 11:56:10 AM »

(Apologies for not responding to everything, there's kind of a lot on my plate!)

Hello! Alex
Thanks for the cool updates! ;D

I found i can retain radiant and the other automated ships CR with no officer
So i can keep at least 7 Radiant-class in about 29% CR (by Support Doctrine
Before the battles, i can install alpha cores temporary. And i will deploy 7 radiant with alpha core officers in about 29% cr because cr lose 1.5%/days

Haha, *thumbs up*


Out of curiosity does windows defender still flag the game?

Probably not everywhere (e.g. it's not flagging it on my system) but I imagine it still flags it at times.

Do ships with S-Mods have higher FP in autoresolve?

Hmm, I don't remember offhand.

Alex, how do you feel about making some existing skills have secondary colony effects?
Like Bulk Transport would increase accessibility, Field Repairs Salvaging reduces resource demand (something something recycling), Tactical Drills increases ground defense...

(This is kinda a suggestion for the game, but also I was thinking of doing this in Nex as a way to buff the named NPC admins, and was wondering if there's a reason I shouldn't)

I don't see doing this in vanilla; I don't think making certain unrelated skills feel "required" for someone that's into colonies would be a good idea - it'd cut down on build variety for someone that feels that way. Plus it just clutters up the skill tree with secondary effects.

That said, for vanilla, I could see maybe adding some effects along these lines to top-tier skills at some point. Maybe. I'd have to think hard about that, though, for the "cuts down build variety" reasons.

Whether this concern constitutes a reason not to do it in Nex, that's up to you!
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arcibalde

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #751 on: December 17, 2021, 12:45:32 PM »

Is another RC (hotfix/fix) planed for near future or is this it?
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Relics MOD - vanilla balanced - Campaign integrated
Vanilla addon MOD - vanilla balanced - Campaign integrated
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #752 on: December 17, 2021, 12:58:26 PM »

Is another RC (hotfix/fix) planed for near future or is this it?

Definitely one more planned. If that one goes well and I managed to avoid introducing any new issues along with it, it's likely to be the final one for 95.1.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #753 on: December 17, 2021, 01:15:51 PM »

Hello! Alex
Thanks for the cool updates! ;D

I found i can retain radiant and the other automated ships CR with no officer
So i can keep at least 7 Radiant-class in about 29% CR (by Support Doctrine
Before the battles, i can install alpha cores temporary. And i will deploy 7 radiant with alpha core officers in about 29% cr because cr lose 1.5%/days

Haha, *thumbs up*
Is it intended that you can stick cores in at the last moment to circumvent the core CR modifier stuff? Feels like maybe the CR should immediately drop to what it should be when you put the cores in.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #754 on: December 17, 2021, 01:25:34 PM »

Hmm, it's not, and honestly it's easy enough to fix by making CR drop instantly when the game is unpaused for AI-cored ships, so: did that. (@lili: Sorry! Blame intrinsic_parity :D )
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Lucky33

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #755 on: December 17, 2021, 04:42:19 PM »

Support Doctrine is actually weakens your fleet considering entire difficulty curve.

For the 400 battle size it provides additional 48 deployment points but for that your entire deployment must be with lvl3 surrogate officers what have to struggle to max out the deployment percentage in the actual battle. This works only against sub-standard, below-average, trash fleets. Against something above average you are supposed to fight by using individually weaker ships with the whole bonus providing you only with something like an additional cruiser for the most difficult part. This is not the top tier skill but actually a noob trap. Pick it up, get to the high level bounties and find yourself overwhelmed. If you are to max out your deployed officers the skill effect will diminish severely. And, guess what, two intermediate skills of the Leadership all about officers.

Compared to the alternative "deploy 50% of the battle size regardless of anything and get to full 60% with only single objective captured by using individually stronger ships" SD doesn't make any sense whatsoever. This is something for the very early game and supposed to be replaced by actually useful advanced skills and to be readily available at the start of the aptitude to form a synergy with something else without investing third of your skill points.

Not only Support Doctrine lacks the impact but it is actually bad. To be of practical use as a top tier skill it should provide DP reduction for the ships with officers. Hence "support" so you can pick some additional ships to provide support for your main force. Not to replace it.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #756 on: December 17, 2021, 05:10:29 PM »

What? No. SD doesn't take away your officers. It just makes it more attractive to use strategies where you have unofficered ships on the field, such as wide strategies, because it makes those ships be stronger and last longer while costing less. Any strategy that uses unofficered ships, be they harassment frigates, escort destroyers, carrier swarms, or minmax builds taking advantage of coordinated maneuvers/Wolfpack tactics/elite gunnery implants (where its incentivized to have officers on potentially low DP ships) are all going to benefit from stronger ships and that last longer and cost less.
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Lucky33

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #757 on: December 17, 2021, 05:32:28 PM »

You have to leave all your officers behind to get the full bonus from the SD (free capital or pair of cruisers or several destroyers). Because deployment is finite at any given time. The more officers you have the less free DP you get. There is no other way.
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Histidine

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #758 on: December 17, 2021, 05:50:42 PM »

You don't have to get the "full" bonus from SD.
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Lucky33

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #759 on: December 17, 2021, 05:55:51 PM »

Sure. You don't even need to have this skill.
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #760 on: December 17, 2021, 06:38:34 PM »

I'm not sure where 48 is coming from.  If I have 240 points, and my ships go from costing 20 to 16 (20*0.8 ), I go from 12 to 15 ships on the field.  15*20 = 300.  So I'm curious, is it necessary for a player to get a full +60 DP bonus, for the skill to be worth a skill point?  Having not played around with uneven deployments all that much, I'm not actually sure.  It seems really strong to me though.

Is being able to deploy, say, 255 (+15 DP) already a sufficient benefit for a tier 5?  +15 would be like a straight up 6% fleet strength buff, plus additional skills on more ships.   A 25% overall fleet strength buff 60/240) for 1 skill point (even as a tier 5) sounds like too much.  I don't think any of the other tier 5s really come close to that, do they?

As a more concrete example, I could imagine an 8 officer build (with the +1 to officer level skill) running 9 Furies (8+player), for 180 DP, then still having 60 DP more for frigates without officers.  That would be an example of Thaago's "wide" build.   I feel going from 7 Scarab/Tempests to 10 is a non-trivial bump, plus also adding peak performance and speed to each of those frigates is a non-trivial bonus.  All it takes is a little bit of out numbering for the AI the start having problems with being able to back off and vent.

How much a fleet multiplier would one expect from a tier 5 skill, and how does that compare to the currently existing ones?  Neural Link is like +1 officer.  That's maybe a 12% increase in officered ships, which doesn't quite translate to raw fleet power?  Automated ships perhaps gets you a 60 DP ship really worth, say, 75?  A Radiant certainly isn't worth 100 DP, for example.  Best of the Best is perhaps an 8% OP buff (imagine 315 OP capital, getting two s-mods worth 30, then another worth 30, so 30/375 = 0.08), which doesn't equate to a raw 25% stronger fleet.  Hull Restoration is +10 to +15% CR, so a +5% multiplier perhaps? Derelict operations is a bit harder to estimate since you need to include a bunch of d-mods decreasing individual ship effectiveness. 
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Amoebka

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #761 on: December 17, 2021, 07:03:22 PM »

You really, really underestimate how important officers are. Support Doctrine only gives the 3 least important skills to ships. It's much better to just field larger ships and fill all your DP with officered ships. Support doctrine is only good for full degen spam strategies, in which case you will combine it with Derelict Ops and enjoy your 50% discount on fighter bays and missile slots.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #762 on: December 17, 2021, 07:14:53 PM »

Neural Link is way better than +1 officer because a Combat player can have 10-14 elite flagship skills vs 7 skills with 3 elite on the best officers.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #763 on: December 17, 2021, 07:41:19 PM »

The best you could possibly do is 12 combat skills with neural link, since you need to spend 3 on non combat skills to get neural link. It would probably be better to take 11 combat skills to get polarized armor and ordinance expertise too if you were trying to maximize flagship power.

Spending some points in leadership to get better officers is probably more worthwhile than max flagship skills though. The weaker combat skills are not really that amazing IMO.
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Amoebka

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #764 on: December 17, 2021, 07:48:29 PM »

It would be even better to take just 10 combat skills, because +15% CR from leadership is better than the 11th best combat skill.
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