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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 248955 times)

Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #465 on: November 30, 2021, 03:19:40 PM »

Quote
only when a total idiot is in charge would any government ignore a potential source of instability
Which they do!  So many low-hanging pirate and indie worlds Hegemony and Church could rough up and decivilize, but they do not.  They attack only the player's worlds, even after the player's faction has grown to major faction size.
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #466 on: November 30, 2021, 05:40:05 PM »

Quote
only when a total idiot is in charge would any government ignore a potential source of instability
Which they do!  So many low-hanging pirate and indie worlds Hegemony and Church could rough up and decivilize, but they do not.  They attack only the player's worlds, even after the player's faction has grown to major faction size.

Yeah, but Hegemony, League and Church are too busy trying to rough each other up... even Alex has stated that the pirates and indies are more "factions" than actual factions (ie, no single government is in charge compared to actual factions).  Luddic Path prolly falls in this category also.  Quite frankly, dropping the concept of the indies and pirates as actual factions might actually improve the game, or at least render it somewhat less confusing.  But since game seems to lack any sort of governing mechanism beyond factions as nation states as opposed to nation states containing multiple political parties factions... prolly just one more thing that'll get fixed/added with rest of that mythical colony update.  Put another way, your critique seems to turn on the fact that factions as nations lack basically any form of interaction beyond basically putting boots on the ground, like real actual tariffs between polities, espionage, diplomacy, and so on.  Game is still single player, not a sci-fi socioeconomic simulator.  I mean, colonies at level 3 are white-listed, but as soon as you hit that magic 4... player gets stomped unless they saved up enough cash to build some defenses while waiting for that magic 4.  If anything, the current lack of an alternative to the colony system is the game's primary weakness right now.  Either save up $$ and start a colony (and deal with all ramifications of having a colony), or finish the Galatia quest line with frequent stops to make $$ on the side (selling all colony stuff you don't need), OR take a commission with a faction.  Where can the player just buy bonds and clip some coupons?

As for another attempt at a real world example... nobody fixes Somalia, they just deal with its ramifications; theoretically Somalia gets the honor of fixing itself, but in practice, it generally doesn't and prolly won't until something radical occurs.  I mean, America tried like 30 years ago, but all it succeeded at was generating a decent Ridley Scott movie.  But I think it was Histidine that pointed out in his Nex thread that the game lacks a lot of stuff under the hood that one would expect should be there, like that tariffs in the game only exist to force player to risk using black market, doesn't actually change value of goods being shipped between factions.  Some of this is prolly necessary abstraction, some is necessary to reduce game data requirements, some hasn't been added yet, and some that seems unnecessary is probably due a compromise in coding.  I mean, game technically isn't even finished yet.  C'est la vie.

Edit: forgot to include Luddic Path as a "faction"
« Last Edit: November 30, 2021, 05:47:59 PM by slowpersun »
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ubuntufreakdragon

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #467 on: November 30, 2021, 06:42:05 PM »

Other factions need more tools to react to the player than just expeditions, as expeditions fail against any defence set up by an experienced player.
How about embargoes blockades and trade wars, reducing the accessibility of a colony of and extra tax reducing the export income of some ware.
Of cause there should be options to break these things, e.g. smuggling a large quantity of commodities somewhere to break the tax's purpose, or killing the blockade fleet...
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #468 on: November 30, 2021, 06:42:21 PM »

The point is Hegemony and Church single out the player and attack him over and over again just for Free Port, regardless if he is yet another indie-like or a major faction equivalent.  They do not attack anyone else, whether small independent (and possibly pirate) worlds, isolated worlds of their enemies, or even major worlds.  If they can send big fleets at the player just for using Free Port, they should be sending them to several other worlds at the same time, and not just at Free Ports, but also at pirate bases and especially Pather bases (instead of waiting for the player who to do their work like ungrateful beggars then thank him by stabbing him in the back).
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #469 on: November 30, 2021, 06:59:25 PM »

The point is Hegemony and Church single out the player and attack him over and over again just for Free Port, regardless if he is yet another indie-like or a major faction equivalent.  They do not attack anyone else, whether small independent (and possibly pirate) worlds, isolated worlds of their enemies, or even major worlds.  If they can send big fleets at the player just for using Free Port, they should be sending them to several other worlds at the same time, and not just at Free Ports, but also at pirate bases and especially Pather bases (instead of waiting for the player who to do their work like ungrateful beggars then thank him by stabbing him in the back).

Game is still single player, not a sci-fi socioeconomic simulator.

That one is on me, prolly shoulda put this sentence in italics or bold at a minimum.  Game isn't necessarily intended to be fair, just trying to achieve verisimilitude... which varies from player to player.  Half the reason game has an easy option isn't just to ease new players in, it's also necessary to prevent alienation of those filthy, filthy neutrals casuals.

Hence why I pointed out that dropping indies, pirates, and L Path as factions might actually be a better choice in the long run, instead making all their planets just as generically "unaffiliated" (although unlikely to occur until a more complex political system can backstop such changes to game loops, whether for player to have option to turn their unfactioned personal colonies into a single faction, or for a pirate king to arise).  Kind of a delicate balance, can't make the game too much like Stellaris!
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Histidine

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #470 on: November 30, 2021, 08:10:52 PM »

Hence why I pointed out that dropping indies, pirates, and L Path as factions might actually be a better choice in the long run, instead making all their planets just as generically "unaffiliated" (although unlikely to occur until a more complex political system can backstop such changes to game loops, whether for player to have option to turn their unfactioned personal colonies into a single faction, or for a pirate king to arise).  Kind of a delicate balance, can't make the game too much like Stellaris!
Seems like the question would still be "why do major factions not send expeditions at these unaffiliated free ports, only the player?" and the answer is ultimately the same, the gamey "because we didn't bother making them do so, which in turn is because it doesn't affect (as much) the player actions and gameplay experience".

There are a bunch of asymmetries in the game like this, not a big deal in terms of gameplay but it does sometimes grate on the player's sense of fairness, or the aforementioned verisimilitude.

(But the pirate base case is kinda silly because the affected systems can be quite literally getting economically ruined, often to the player's advantage with exploitable commodity shortages, yet the factions do less about it than they do about relatively minor player activity. I changed this in Nex specifically because of Megas posting about it)
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #471 on: December 01, 2021, 12:04:44 AM »

I think it's something like a mix of grandfather clause and funding the terrorists. Some colonies were independent for a long time and people are just used to them. They might not be a threat, or no faction can take it over without angering another, so there's an unspoken agreement that colony is ok. For pirates and pathers, factions might be using them to do things they aren't officially allowed to do. Plausible deniability is a nice thing to have.
It's the sort of unfair treatment you see in real life. Better the debil you know. The player is new and unknown and that makes him dangerous.

SonnaBanana

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #472 on: December 01, 2021, 12:36:29 AM »

I think it's something like a mix of grandfather clause and funding the terrorists. Some colonies were independent for a long time and people are just used to them. They might not be a threat, or no faction can take it over without angering another, so there's an unspoken agreement that colony is ok. For pirates and pathers, factions might be using them to do things they aren't officially allowed to do. Plausible deniability is a nice thing to have.
It's the sort of unfair treatment you see in real life. Better the debil you know. The player is new and unknown and that makes him dangerous.
Still, other factions should know when to back down.
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q-rau

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #473 on: December 01, 2021, 10:16:13 AM »

Honestly wanting every game I play to be a socioeconomic simulator is probably my biggest issue. I'm still working on modeling faction relations in my fantasy trading sim...
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #474 on: December 01, 2021, 10:58:14 PM »

Honestly wanting every game I play to be a socioeconomic simulator is probably my biggest issue. I'm still working on modeling faction relations in my fantasy trading sim...

Oof, man, you gonna die of either a burst bladder or starvation when Dwarf Fortress hits Steam...
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #475 on: December 02, 2021, 05:20:05 PM »

Alex, how close is the second batch of patch notes?  :P
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Radicaljack

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #476 on: December 02, 2021, 05:38:46 PM »

Alex, how close is the second batch of patch notes?  :P

always my favorite thing to read, the intial ones are great but i start checking daily after the second batch comes out, furiously refreshing in hopes that i'll see the glorious "released" tag. Honestly the list of changes already is very impressive, eager to test them out. Alex killing it as always and the suggestions from the community are so massive that he's sure to have any number of ideas to pull from for any issues.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #477 on: December 03, 2021, 03:35:25 PM »

Updated with a bit of new stuff in the OP.
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Yubbin

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #478 on: December 03, 2021, 04:12:31 PM »

A pilum rebalance and a sabot nerf?? YAY!!!!
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Aramoro

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #479 on: December 03, 2021, 04:15:07 PM »

Ships:

    Updated older sprites for several ships

Can we know which ships plz?
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