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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 250392 times)

Mantas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #450 on: November 28, 2021, 07:25:11 AM »

Are early colonies a good investment? Let's see. Pick a low-hazard world with farming and mining opportunities. These are the expenses you will want to make:
    - ~100k for crew, supplies and other materials to colonize and build a comm relay
    - ~100k to buy ships to transport the above (pair of nebula's and a freighter)
    - 75k to build Farming
    - 100k to build Mining
    - 100k to build Waystation, so you can resupply at the colony.
    - 250k to build an Orbital station, the most effective defense.
    - 150k to build Ground Defenses, for the stability bonus.
    - 300k for Patrol HQ, so you spawn some ships to deal with straggler pirate fleets, etc.
    - 5k/month for an Administrator with Industrial Planning. Pays for itself so it's a no-brainer.
    - 5-10k/month for Hazard Pay to grow to size 4.
Total: roughly 1.3 million credits all told.

This is a textbook example of the points I was raising on what not to do when your colony's still small. If this is how someone plays, power to them, but people should treat colony income/expenses the same way as they do flux dissipation. Building a colony is not dissimilar to fitting a ship and smaller colonies will have a hard time supporting a number of costs that, in my opinion, aren't quite necessary for their size.

Defense-wise, a size 3 colony can get by perfectly fine with just ground defenses or a station, especially if it's the first colony. They both protect against raids and improve stability and either one is really all you need for the scale of raids the colony will be having in the early game. Doubling up on the defenses at this point is just paying for the sake of peace of mind. Also, at this stage, players won't have anything to bump their fleet size or ship quality, so a Patrol HQ is about useless. Especially if its early game and they don't even have blueprints. An early game patrol HQ is just burning money for the sake it. Eventually, as the colony grows and the industries increase in number and resources produce, players will have a need to bump their defenses, but it's not necessary to start with.

Regarding a way-station, if it's still in the early game and relatively strapped for cash, especially if the player doesn't plan on baby-sitting their first colony, they won't be getting any benefit off it. At this point in the game, they should be playing the markets for the highest returns and this also applies to where and how they get they supplies, fuel and crew from. Just like how you buy from excess markets to sell to deficit markets, at this phase where money is a luxury you should also be getting your resources in the same way, if not from space battles.

I see this, not as an example of colonies taking a long time to be profitable, but more of an example of poor planning. Maybe it's an issue of mindset. Players build their ships strategically to get the most advantage of each hull size within the limitations of OP and flux dissipation and should build colonies with the same mindset. Is this investment and expenditure really justified for a colony of this size? What do I want from my colony?  Do I need a waystation if I don't plan on visiting it much? Am I in a hurry for it to grow, to justify the expense of the hazard pay? People can't just throw structures and industries onto a colony any more than they can add weapons and hullmods onto their ships haphazardly and expect it to work.
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FooF

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #451 on: November 28, 2021, 08:04:12 AM »

Agreed with Mantas: you don't need anything beyond a first industry and orbital station/ground defenses to start. If you go above and beyond that, you're investing in the colony but it won't pay dividends for a very long time.

I think, as players, we're just impatient. I mean, you could theoretically gate some stuff behind colony size but I don't know if that's entirely necessary. If you have the money, I guess the game shouldn't prevent you from doing it but it's kind of a noob trap to have millions of credits-worth of stuff just waiting for you as soon as you plop down a a colony.

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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #452 on: November 28, 2021, 08:31:18 AM »

The first structure to be built is always orbital station because of that first pirate raid.  I have time to build one structure before the pirates come, and I want something that can put more guns on the battlefield, and orbital station is the only option for that.

I like some ground defenses as backup, in case orbital station is not enough, or if I want the stability.  There was one or two times when the battlestation was down, but ground defenses repelled the pirate raid.

Patrol HQ is needed to maintain control of relays in your system.  Enemies will steal them while you are away, and if you do not have patrol HQ, then you will need to run back (possibly long distance) to your home system to reclaim your comm relay.  With Patrol HQ, your patrols will reclaim your relays for you, reducing babysitting hassle.

I like Waystation because it stocks up on crew, supplies, and fuel - the fleet essentials, especially if my colony is not that close to core.

My early colony with all of the basic structures look something like this:  Waystation, Orbital Station, Ground Defenses, Patrol HQ, and Industry #1 (usually Farming or Mining).  It should be enough to repel early pirates player will likely get.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #453 on: November 28, 2021, 10:15:14 AM »

I usually don't build any defenses at all on size 3 worlds, and oftentimes not a waystation either (this depends a bit if I'm doing lots of missions in the area of the colony/treating it as a home base - if yes then waystation, if no no need). If I happen to be in the neighborhood I'll stop the initial pirate raid, but its not really important to do so if its inconvenient. Its not that damaging and while it costs some money, for a brand new colony its not as much as a few missed contracts.

If I have the money to spend on defense buildings, I usually instead spend it on colonizing 2-3 worlds all at once if their in the same system.
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #454 on: November 28, 2021, 08:56:58 PM »

and oftentimes not a waystation either (this depends a bit if I'm doing lots of missions in the area of the colony/treating it as a home base - if yes then waystation, if no no need).

Sort of weird not to bother with a waystation, seems to basically be no downside to dropping one (relatively low cost for +10% accessibility, basically pays for itself eventually).
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #455 on: November 28, 2021, 09:21:01 PM »

We need ways to deal with Recreational Drugs and Harvested Organs demands without going Free Port.
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Kragh

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #456 on: November 28, 2021, 09:34:36 PM »

We need ways to deal with Recreational Drugs and Harvested Organs demands without going Free Port.
What. Are you telling me you believe it should be legal to trade in Recreational Drugs and Harvested Organs? Those are banned in most of the system. Free port is basically saying "You can trave whatever you want here". Of course your need Free port to trade those (which imply you need free port to supply those needs).
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #457 on: November 28, 2021, 09:59:30 PM »

We need ways to deal with Recreational Drugs and Harvested Organs demands without going Free Port.

I've actually been thinking about this, the fact that light industry doesn't have an upgrade seems ripe for change.  But can't think of a decent upgrade for allowing for Recreational Drug production without requiring free port...
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #458 on: November 28, 2021, 10:18:40 PM »

We need ways to deal with Recreational Drugs and Harvested Organs demands without going Free Port.
What. Are you telling me you believe it should be legal to trade in Recreational Drugs and Harvested Organs? Those are banned in most of the system. Free port is basically saying "You can trave whatever you want here". Of course your need Free port to trade those (which imply you need free port to supply those needs).
We need ways to deal with Recreational Drugs and Harvested Organs demands without going Free Port.

I've actually been thinking about this, the fact that light industry doesn't have an upgrade seems ripe for change.  But can't think of a decent upgrade for allowing for Recreational Drug production without requiring free port...

I was thinking of demand elimination than legal production, some sort of Medical System industry which removes RD&HO demands from other industries, or some sort of Augmentary industry which replaces RD&HO demands with Supplies demand.
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #459 on: November 28, 2021, 10:27:00 PM »

I was thinking of demand elimination than legal production, some sort of Medical System industry which removes RD&HO demands from other industries, or some sort of Augmentary industry which replaces RD&HO demands with Supplies demand.

That might work with some sort of tradeoff beyond just $$ cost, although whether building vs. industry, I dunno (medical leftovers and VR data centers, basically).  But regarding cutting up organ donors at hospitals, health care, policing instead of just military, and maybe power systems/energy seem like they would get added during that eventual colony overhaul in, 2023, maybe?
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DaShiv

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #460 on: November 29, 2021, 03:22:10 AM »

  • Fighter Uplink: moved to Leadership, added 50% target leading accuracy bonus

I didn't see this addressed elsewhere, but doesn't the target leading accuracy make the current elite bonus from Strike Commander somewhat redundant? The current Elite Strike Commander is extremely niche - it's already the only combat skill that doesn't benefit the piloted ship at all, and the elite bonus doesn't benefit fighters with guided ordnances (such as Daggers) or beams (such as Sparks) at all either.

Considering how elite bonuses for skills like Helmsmanship and Point Defense got a bit of a touch-up, I wonder if similarly there wasn't something extra for Elite Strike Commander that was left out of the patch notes, for flavor if nothing else.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #461 on: November 29, 2021, 03:26:26 AM »

Strike Commander got dropped.
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DaShiv

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #462 on: November 29, 2021, 03:45:08 AM »

Strike Commander got dropped.

Ahh gotcha - that's useful context for the earlier discussion of fleetwide vs pilotable fighter skills. So it looks like there are no more direct damage bonuses for fighters, other than CR and Point Defense vs other fighters; it'll be interesting to see whether the officer-dependent bonus for the fleetwide skills compensates for this. Thanks!
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Amoebka

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #463 on: November 30, 2021, 01:06:06 PM »

We need ways to deal with Recreational Drugs and Harvested Organs demands without going Free Port.
What. Are you telling me you believe it should be legal to trade in Recreational Drugs and Harvested Organs? Those are banned in most of the system. Free port is basically saying "You can trave whatever you want here". Of course your need Free port to trade those (which imply you need free port to supply those needs).
Trading normally illegal commodities between your own planets and exporting them to other factions are different things, yet the game treats it the same. If my planet A makes drugs and sells them to my planet B, what the hell does Hegemony care?
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #464 on: November 30, 2021, 03:02:29 PM »

Trading normally illegal commodities between your own planets and exporting them to other factions are different things, yet the game treats it the same. If my planet A makes drugs and sells them to my planet B, what the hell does Hegemony care?

Technically, they shouldn't.  But considering even just the real world example of the War on Drugs and transnational crime, only when a total idiot is in charge would any government ignore a potential source of instability (ie, the proverbial Nero; just not the actual Nero, seems the legend of him "fiddling" was just a smear campaign), even if it is a foreign source.  Arguably the source of the issue is the abstract nature of the game's commodity system.  Just Rec Drugs.  Not caffeine vs. cannabis vs. heroin... but adding MOAR commodities would definitely increase game data requirements (how much, that is debatable), plus is really, REALLY controversial on forums.  I ran a more commodities poll like 6 months ago, was very surprised to see how evenly split fanbase is regarding adding commodities (half wanted more, half vehemently opposed).
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