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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2 (04/30/22)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 152767 times)

pairedeciseaux

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #405 on: November 23, 2021, 10:28:47 AM »

(The other stuff: thoughts noted! Definitely too late in the release cycle to want to be messing with anything like this now, though.)

Ahhh, that's what I like to read.

You see here, there is kind of a recognizable pattern where, well, release is getting closer, so you gotta somehow freeze and test, right? Brothers, I think we shall be blessed with .1 very soon indeed! Make sure you all cancel your important meetings and travels for the next too weeks, 'cause you can't afford to miss the first shuttle to .1 release!

Besides, we can't allow you to spread fake news regarding Thumper for much longer.

:P
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Fenrir

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #406 on: November 23, 2021, 11:48:17 AM »

Make sure you all cancel your important meetings and travels for the next too weeks, 'cause you can't afford to miss the first shuttle to .1 release!

Ha, that's where the neural link comes in, be at 2 places at the same time!   :D
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #407 on: November 23, 2021, 05:49:42 PM »


Culann is actually fine - its admin, which is *totally* not a front for an Alpha Core, has the new Hypercognition skill. I haven't noticed any other problems, though it's possible I might have missed something. Happy to double-check anything else specific!

Could we also do this ourselves? Spend story points to cover up AI involvement in colonies to reduce Hegemony and Pather attention........
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I'm not going to check but you should feel bad :( - Alex

Mantas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #408 on: November 24, 2021, 04:37:52 AM »

colony wishlist:
adminstartor cap -> soft cap any further admin gets 5 times the payment or something like this.
military base give system wide stability bonus
upgrade for way station to stockpile resources
item for aquaculture similar to the one for farming + adds lobster.

Forget Pristine Nanoforges, an Aquaculture industry item that adds lobsters would become the single most sought for item in the sector.
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bobucles

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #409 on: November 24, 2021, 05:30:35 AM »

Colonies are only big money makers late.  Early on, they are money pits. 
But that's not true. All a colony needs to turn a profit is a handful of resources and a mining industry. Everything else is a bigger investment with a longer period of debt for a bigger payoff, which is perfectly fine. You don't NEED a level 3 alpha core starbase, marines and 600% nanoforge fleets to start colonizing.


Of course one could argue that a tiny colony takes too much baby sitting or something like that. But it's hard to lose a huge amount of investment on a tiny outpost, when so little gets invested in the first place.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 05:32:46 AM by bobucles »
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #410 on: November 24, 2021, 07:32:33 AM »

The meager profit from my early colonies was eaten up by maintaining my fleet and other expenses, basically breaking even or maybe an insignificant profit after expenses.  For me to actually gain money, I did cheesy stuff like black market trades, raiding pirate bases silly, and eventually chain 300k+ bounties near the end after my fleet was strong enough.

Once my colonies made it to size 6, near the end, my colony income bloomed dramatically.  No hazard pay to pay, plus Commerce as industry #4, is a big deal.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 07:57:21 AM by Megas »
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bobucles

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #411 on: November 24, 2021, 08:09:41 AM »

Covering the cost of fleet upkeep IS a profit, when the alternative is having no passive income at all. Setting up a starter colony is incredibly easy as well, the most difficult part is getting enough colonists in one spot at the same time. That obstacle can be cheesed a bit by taking multiple trips and freeze drying colonists in orbit, and maybe there are other tricks I don't know about. The colony can definitely be set up before getting a single capital ship, or even having enough money for one, and it certainly takes some pressure off by covering the costs of one.

Of course a tiny colony can't cover a doom fleet's upkeep, nor should it be expected to. But I don't think anyone is going to argue that. Early game isn't endgame, but it has its place. Perhaps the issue is more of being extremely experienced and racing through the early game, so that early game strategies become obsolete before they even warm up.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 08:25:57 AM by bobucles »
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #412 on: November 24, 2021, 08:30:59 AM »

Paying for fleet upkeep IS a profit, when the alternative is having no passive income at all. Setting up a starter colony is incredibly easy as well, the most difficult part is getting enough colonists in one spot at the same time. That obstacle can be cheesed a bit by taking multiple trips and freeze drying colonists in orbit, and maybe there are other tricks I don't know about.

Poor frozen colonists. My typical solution is two Nebulas, destroyer class transports - colony ships if you will, with additional berthing that can hold 1040 crew combined, and are about 66,000 credits for the pair.  That is roughly the cost of the crew, supplies, and heavy machinery you'll use to build the colony, and then you just leave them in storage at the new colony until you need space for marines or something.  I think the time spent not making multiple trips will generally generate more profit than 66,000 credits (depending on colony location).
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #413 on: November 24, 2021, 09:08:02 AM »

Covering the cost of fleet upkeep IS a profit, when the alternative is having no passive income at all. Setting up a starter colony is incredibly easy as well, the most difficult part is getting enough colonists in one spot at the same time. That obstacle can be cheesed a bit by taking multiple trips and freeze drying colonists in orbit, and maybe there are other tricks I don't know about. The colony can definitely be set up before getting a single capital ship, or even having enough money for one, and it certainly takes some pressure off by covering the costs of one.
Not when compared to pre-colony releases when personnel and officers did not drain income per month.

The Galatian stipend is insufficient for a late-game fleet, and I need colony income to support it.

The personnel are in my fleet living in my big ships, and I prefer big ships.  Eight level 5 officers also take a bite out of income.

Also, I like to raid, I like to raid for vendor trash if it is practically free money (like drugs or supplies), and I will raid core worlds to catch all blueprints (and other rare items) like pokemon.  Marines also drain income.

I start colonies when it is feasible to, about midgame.  My last game had a terrible seed for planets, so I did not grow colonies beyond 4 until very late in the game.

With only four colonies, I place colonies where they can be self-sufficient and at a good location, not necessarily where they can mine the most resources for the most profit.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 09:10:40 AM by Megas »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #414 on: November 24, 2021, 09:48:15 AM »

If the colony is making net money over its own upkeep, it is not a money pit. Your fleet is the money pit, and the colony is helping to mitigate that.

Colonies only become money pits when you are paying hazard pay and also trying to build/upgrade lots of industries at the same time. You can play things more slowly to avoid that, but it will take a lot longer.
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FooF

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #415 on: November 24, 2021, 10:08:30 AM »

If the colony is making net money over its own upkeep, it is not a money pit. Your fleet is the money pit, and the colony is helping to mitigate that.

Colonies only become money pits when you are paying hazard pay and also trying to build/upgrade lots of industries at the same time. You can play things more slowly to avoid that, but it will take a lot longer.

Right. If you don’t try to do everything at once, colonies are fine. Also, taking a commission offsets the majority of fleet costs early and is equal to a decent single colony in terms of income. I don’t always take commissions but when I do, I find I start colonies sooner because I have the capital earlier.

Also, I never thought about jettisoning crew around a colony and stabilizing the orbit. How funny!
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #416 on: November 24, 2021, 10:33:18 AM »

If the colony is making net money over its own upkeep, it is not a money pit. Your fleet is the money pit, and the colony is helping to mitigate that.

Colonies only become money pits when you are paying hazard pay and also trying to build/upgrade lots of industries at the same time. You can play things more slowly to avoid that, but it will take a lot longer.
There is the initial cost of building up a colony.  Colonies are a money pit in that it costs nearly or about as much as a capital to build a structure or industry.  With up to about 100k income per month (from small early colonies), it would take years to pay off the costs of building up one colony with several structures with colony income alone.  Colony takes millions of credits to build.

Unless I go for Wolfpack Tactics frigate horde (which I did not), I want a fleet bigger than the enemy (or use overpowered ship that works with my skills) to crush the enemy.  Enemy fleets level up faster than I do.  (Late in my last game, I had to avoid combat until after many drug runs and raids on pirates because nearly everything was 250k+ strength, and my fleet was not big enough to kill them without significant losses.)
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Amoebka

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #417 on: November 24, 2021, 06:48:33 PM »

Yeah, this is my issue with people claiming colonies are profitable too. Have you guys actually sat down and calculated how long it takes for a size 3 heavy industry colony with no defenses to pay for itself? You will run out of things to do in the game long before that. The only colonies that felt useful to me were drugs+commerce, and now commerce is nerfed.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #418 on: November 24, 2021, 07:28:35 PM »

I mean colonies late game can make half a million credits per month, so they definitely pay for themselves many times over eventually. Also, heavy industry is a bad example: that industry definitely is one of the least profitable because it provides the additional utility of letting you build ships. I think if you just built farming/mining on a high resource, low hazard world, it would pay for itself pretty quickly: farming only costs 75k, so even small income like 20-30k/month would pay for the colony very quickly. Defenses are the expensive part, but that's more a question of how much you are willing to babysit. Also, colony items make a big difference. I'm sort of curious how something like a megaport or way station would stack up in terms of profitability early on. I would guess they would not be very helpful if you were trying to break even quickly, but obviously they are worth a lot later on when you  have multiple industries.

I generally colonize late and dump money into my colonies because I like to wait and see what items I have to prioritize worlds, and I need something to do with my money once I scale up my fleet, so I guess I can't really speak from experience about small colonies.
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Amoebka

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #419 on: November 24, 2021, 07:57:03 PM »

Small mining colonies only pay for themselves in reasonable time if you don't grow them. It's a pick your poison situation - either you lose money for a long, long time; or your colony never grows and its meagre income becomes meaningless compared to your fleet expenses.

Making millions eventually is exactly the problem. Colonies are a net loss of money early, when money matter the most, and only start giving profits when the game is already over because you have nothing else to do. The investment is too long term. It's like pouring all your money into stocks that will only start paying off when you are 80.
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