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[ubuntufreakdragon]

Commerce was the best industry slot for making money by a factor of 2.5 or more, but it doesn't supply any goods for reducing maintenance and has that stability penalty. I'm not sure if 25% is too harsh or not, it depends on how the item and upgrades are changed as well.

It would still be worth it if you could get more stability by other means, I want a system wide stability boust by military bases, as they project major forces system wide and offer enough capacity to help with difficulties on nearby planets.

And an upgrade for the way station stockpiling needed resources and more rare ship equipment would be nice.
Rare ship equipments include all comodities consumed by a fleet: Marines, Heavy Machinery, Metalls, Transplutonics, Volatiles.

[intrinsic_parity]

I think commerce will probably not be worth using without the item, which doesn't seem unreasonable IMO. Honestly stability is really not so important now that any stability over 5 gives full income. Sitting at 8 or 9 stability is pretty tolerable for a big income boost.

In terms of omega weapons, I think most of the small ones are quite good, and the weak PD option is getting buffed. I don't think any of them are weaker than the non-omega options now.

The cryo blaster was the only really good medium option IMO, the others all had downsides that were large enough to make them quite situational although most of them still felt decent in the right loadout. I think the cryoblaster probably needs a flux reduction to make it viable with such a large damage reduction, otherwise the heavy blaster will simply be better 90% of the time.

The large omega weapons are the weakest IMO, none of them feel exceptionally powerful, and I usually find myself preferring a tach lance or plasma cannon. The kinetic one was ok, but it felt really weird with the reduced damage at range mechanic which really doesn't suit most of the ships with large energy slots.

[Megas]

Sitting at 8 or 9 stability is pretty tolerable for a big income boost.

For income alone, 8 is enough to take the occasional -3/-50% from pirates.  But high stability is important for things aside from income, especially since colony size is capped for the player.

(Also in my last game, most habitables had Decivilized Subpopulation - what an unlucky seed!  I needed colony improvements just to offset that condition!)

It would still be worth it if you could get more stability by other means, I want a system wide stability boust by military bases, as they project major forces system wide and offer enough capacity to help with difficulties on nearby planets.

Currently, for player colonies, we have a net stability change of -1 from last release.  Commerce for -3, and +2 from the two colony improvements that add +1 to stability.  NPC core worlds with Commerce get shafted and may be prone to decivilization if they take further penalties to stability, like pirate activity and raids.

With our colonies capped at size 6, and one of the fleet doctrine stats nerfed, stability is important for fleet defense (and ship production without pristine nanoforge).

My 2 cents on a few raised points:
Commerce was the best industry slot for making money by a factor of 2.5 or more, but it doesn't supply any goods for reducing maintenance and has that stability penalty. I'm not sure if 25% is too harsh or not, it depends on how the item and upgrades are changed as well.

Atropos is a sidegrade to the harpoon but a useful one: it does slightly less theoretical damage per magazine (2000 vs 2250) in a shorter time and more reliably, with better tracking, slightly faster speed, higher projectile hitpoints, and better penetration value. Its main downside is being shorter ranged so you can't stack backline ships' Atropos from 2000 units away together, which is a big factor, but for brawlers its a superior missile (if you want to use missiles and not reapers).

Atropos is lame for brawling in part because it cannot be used point-blank - they bounce.  Would be fine if they hit hard, but they are barely better than a Harpoon.  Also, I may not want to use Reapers (because too slow or easy to shoot down without boosts), but I may take Hammer rack instead.  I can hit one out of two and still do better than Atropos.  If Atropos had more range, I might consider the homing a plus, but its range is too short to help much.

However, I might use (single) Atropos on ships with awkward mounts unfriendly for dumb-fire missiles, like say... Falcon or Eagle with those mounts way off-center.

[IonDragonX]

• New industry skill, personal: Ordnance Expertise
  • +2 flux dissipation per ordnance point spent on weapons
  • Elite: +20 flux capacity per ordnance point spent on weapons

You're joking?! Right?! This is a typo??
Uran92 also agrees with me here...
Unless, this doesn't affect the fleet but only the piloted ship? Its important to say which it is.

Dunno man. Hard to tell.

That's harsh, man. You could have simply said that I overlooked the word "personal" in the first line.

[JUDGE! slowpersun]

commerce is far an away the best industry in the game, this nerf is deserved
being able to pull from 50% to 150% extra income out of nowhere is insane and actively removes choice (by being the best 4th industry pick a solid 90% of the time) from the already incredibly boring vanilla colony gameplay loop (seriously, you just sit on a box until you suddenly have more money than god)

I rather see the +100% bonus from other effects tweaked and not the base effect.  +25% instead of +50% is a big deal.  +125% instead of +150%?  Not so much.  Rather see the range tightened, not screw over those limited to the stock industry.

This in a nutshell seems to capture the major issue relating to the commerce industry option.  Its primary purpose is to allow a player sell junk at their colony, but this purpose has been basically overridden by the additional +% income bonus (further exacerbated by allowing use of SP for improvement + rare items).  However, if player gets bored and decivs basically the entire sector, kinda need that income bonus.  So perhaps the solution is either that if enough of a sector decivs, either some deciv planets spontaneously become cived again, or just that some huge extra income (hidden) bonus for commerce industry occurs only AFTER some large % of sector decivs.  Whether or not it stays an industry slot is another issue, although seems relatively simple to solve, just make it like Patrol base (ie, a building that upgrades into an industry, if player only wants to buy/sell stuff, it really only needs to be a building).

But since the entire colony gameplay loop will likely get a pass during the next update cycle (if only possibly to add diplomacy and further contact stuff to colonies), seems like whatever being done now is just temporary until 2025 or whenever the next major patch drops...

[Megas]

I never liked the shop aspect of Commerce on my colonies.  For one of the markets (either commodities or ships), it defaults to Open Market instead of my Storage.  Adding another click to access my stockpiles is not what I want on my primary homeworld.  Also, the tariffs!  If I really want a shop near my colonies, I will simply go to one of the pop-up zombie pirate space stations that never stay dead and often pop-up near one of my colonies.  I can buy stuff from them and sell them vendor trash without paying any tariffs (and buy crew and marines cheaper than my own colony resources).

The only reason I tolerate Commerce is the extra income.  Without that, the freeloader Indies demanding upkeep and 30% tariffs can keep off of my planets!

[Alex]

Hmm, I'll have another look at the Cryoblaster numbers. I do think it's a mistake to entirely dismiss the absolutely ridiculous damage it does to hull, though; the difference in TTK that makes is just about qualitative. Still!

Now that's a straight up lie.

Dunno man. Hard to tell.

(I feel like maybe you mean these in a kind of jokey/bantering sort of way, but if that's the case, at least IMO - it's the internet, and it doesn't come across very well.)

[intrinsic_parity]

Hmm, I'll have another look at the Cryoblaster numbers. I do think it's a mistake to entirely dismiss the absolutely ridiculous damage it does to hull, though; the difference in TTK that makes is just about qualitative. Still!

I think even like 450 flux/sec would be much better. It would give cryoblaster the same shield damage efficiency as the HB, while leaving it noticeable behind in armor DPS/efficiency and still far ahead in hull DPS.

[Wyvern]

I did, actually, edit my game files to the new Cryoblaster damage - without changing its flux cost - and it seems to be at least mostly fine?

Usable, definitely. Optimal... Maybe not? I'll admit to primarily using it on Tempests, which will be losing HEF next patch... but even on non-HEF ships it performed acceptably.

If the damage reduction is an over-nerf, it's not an extreme one, and I'd probably compensate with... maybe an extra 50 range? Maybe one or two less OP cost?

It is, at the very least, not in original-stat-shockrepeater range of "this is trash, never use it".

[Alex]

FWIW, I've just changed its damage to 1400 - which puts in at almost exactly at the Heavy Blaster's anti-shield effectiveness.

Now, the real question is the Hypervelocity Driver. I'm not sure I'll end up touching it for this update, but it does feel like it needs to be adjusted *somehow*, at some point.

Also, just for fun (coupled with some other missile adjustments):

Harpoon (Single), Sabot (Single):
   Changed to (Double)
   Ammo increased to 2, with a 10 second reload delay
   OP cost increased to 2
   Longbow Bomber retains the single-shot version

[Megas]

Also, just for fun (coupled with some other missile adjustments):

Harpoon (Single), Sabot (Single):
   Changed to (Double)
   Ammo increased to 2, with a 10 second reload delay
   OP cost increased to 2
   Longbow Bomber retains the single-shot version

So long, Atropos!

[Megas]

Posted one Dealmaker nerf idea elsewhere:  Instead of adding to income, the Dealmaker can remove all tariffs from the player's colony.  (That way, player will not need to visit pirates next door to buy or sell stuff for the best prices.)

If a core world has it, tariffs are higher, maybe 50%.  Or it does nothing?

[Alex]

So long, Atropos!

One of other changes is the Atropo...ses? Atropi? cost 3 OP for double / 1 OP for single!

Posted one Dealmaker nerf idea elsewhere:  Instead of adding to income, the Dealmaker can remove all tariffs from the player's colony.  (That way, player will not need to visit pirates next door to buy or sell stuff for the best prices.)

If a core world has it, tariffs are higher, maybe 50%.  Or it does nothing?

Hmm, interesting! Will keep that in mind. On the other hand, it'd probably make you feel like you had to sell stuff at your home colony only - to get full credits and to avoid any black market consequences, even if they're relatively minor.

[Megas]

Hmm, interesting! Will keep that in mind. On the other hand, it'd probably make you feel like you had to sell stuff at your home colony only - to get full credits and to avoid any black market consequences, even if they're relatively minor.

It is more for QoL.  I already take a slight detour to the nearby pirate planet (especially the -1/-10% next to my system) just to do tariff-free trade.

[IonDragonX]

Now, the real question is the Hypervelocity Driver. I'm not sure I'll end up touching it for this update, but it does feel like it needs to be adjusted *somehow*, at some point.

I'd suggest add an ammo count to it. Keep the current DPS for a few seconds then let it fall off under sustained fire. It will make the other choices stronger by comparison and increase the scrutiny of Expanded Magazines hullmod.