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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hyperspace Topography (10/12/22)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 188543 times)

Mordodrukow

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2021, 06:21:30 PM »

Quote
With the caveat that I don't know exactly which changes you mean, and so my answer might be off-base: generally, these are buffs to specific weapons to take them from "generally pretty bad" to "useful". So I don't think it makes sense to consider this as a buff to ballistics in general. It's about opening up more options/giving more purpose to things that already exist but don't see much use, rather than, say, a buff to the top-tier performers in the ballistic lineup, if that makes sense.
I m talking about new hullmod and new skill replacing Ranged spec. Looks a little bit too much...
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2021, 06:26:10 PM »

Quote
Mine Strike: reduced range to 1000 (was: 1500)
Improved how the omni shield AI prioritizes mines
Does this affect Star Fortresses that attack with mines?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 06:28:12 PM by Megas »
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2021, 06:30:14 PM »

No changes to Carrier Group?

Not that I can recall - 50% for up to 8 bays, still. But of course its placement under Leadership is different, since it's one of the six skills in the first tier.

I m talking about new hullmod and new skill replacing Ranged spec. Looks a little bit too much...

Ah! The new hullmod I think is also more about opening up new possibilities - namely, combining small weapons with larger ones and being able to get them in the same range band. This seems like fun from a "more dakka" perspective but not something I'd call a flat-out buff, especially since it costs OP.

Likewise, for the skill - 1) energy weapons have their own dedicated skill, so this is just evening things out in that respect, but more importantly, 2) it's a *skill* so if it didn't exist that officer/the player/whatever would have another skill in its place. So even if it's a good, useful skill, its net effect is still "however much better it is compared to the alternative", not just its raw effect... like, it's easy to look at that and see the numbers as the buff to ballistics in general since you'd expect most ships using ballistics to want that skill on an officer, but that's not the whole picture, since they have to give something else up!
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Timid

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2021, 06:39:56 PM »

I wonder if it's too late in the patch notes or not as I wanted to write a more detailed entry later on but...

have there been any changes to the Contacts so far? Cross-mod contact compatibility seems to be quite an issue such as...

- disabling certain missions from appearing in other factions' bar events.
- enabling certain missions from appearing in other factions' bar events.
- missions not allowing certain factions (only luddic church, path, and hegemony can give you remnant military bounties but what about the other factions?)
and so much more in the later era which I will clarify later in a future thread.

Otherwise, it's a cool mod feature so far, just afraid this problem will come up later on. I've been using it with partial success.

Histidine

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2021, 06:47:25 PM »

Quote
Bulk Transport: burn bonus increased to +2 (was: +1)
Doesn't this make militarizing a freighter (or for that matter something like Atlas Mk.II) strongly negative? Unless half the bonus still applies to such ships, so final burn remains the same.

Quote
Quantum Disruptor: removed charges, now just has a 30 second cooldown
Woah, wrecked it (although SysExp will still help)

Is AI smart enough to use it, now that it can't just use the ability a few times for a wider effective overload window? Maybe overload duration could be longer.

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Heavy Needler: reduced range to 700, to match other needlers (was: 750, bothering me)
I feel like this wasn't really needed balance-wise, but maybe it'll help draw a specialization line between Heavy AC (longer range) and heavy needler (better for knife fighters).

- Mauler changes
Nice, maybe it'll know its old glory again. (In recent versions I'd stopped using it since it just recoils too much after a while)

Quote
TextFieldAPI
Text input fields?!

Quote
createCheckbox
I'm guessing this is a 'real' checkbox as distinct from the existing area checkboxes that cover the whole button?
Is this being used in vanilla GUI too?

Quote
Fixed issue where "order a full retreat dialog?" was persistently shown in a battle with allies when none of your own ships were deployed; now it will only be shown once unless the player deploys some ships
Wow this was bothering me so much the last couple of days, great to hear it's fixed!
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Maethendias

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2021, 06:48:34 PM »

apogee no longer available from high tech blueprint, but why?

thats a very specific change, no?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 06:52:39 PM by Maethendias »
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Avanitia

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2021, 06:54:50 PM »

Quote
Heavy Mauler:
Now fires bursts of 3 shots with a long cooldown
Overall slightly lower DPS than before
Reduced flux/shot to 200 (was: 225)
Significantly increased accuracy

This change doesn't make much sense to me - Mauler felt fine to me the way it was. With this change, it feels like it doesn't synergise with Hypervelocity Driver and Heavy Autocannon both.

Hmm, you mean as far as it having reduced ability to put on sustained pressure, forcing shields to stay up more? My impression of the Mauler doesn't match yours, though; I could be off about it but it didn't seem like it was actually all that useful. This version is more about having some ability to burst down armor, at long range and with good accuracy, which feels like it might be more of a niche. But, open to being wrong about that.

I thought it was an intentional balance point for it - as long range constant pressure weapon, it matched Hypervelocity Driver in that range bracket. Also kept it from being oppressive due to how common medium slots are - if Mauler will be very accurate, doesn't it sort of nullify purpose of Heavy Mortar too? They will be very similar, only difference being that Mauler has way better accuracy, better damage, more range... making it so much more AI-friendly and usable in general despite higher cost. If anything, in my opnion, maybe Heavy Mortar could use some love or something?
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Morgan Rue

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2021, 06:56:05 PM »

I will note that previously, you could run a Heavy Mauler and use it as sustained pressure to overwhelm shields over a longer period of time. When combined with an HVD, due to it's reasonable refire rate, it can force shields to be up at 1000 SU, and apply a fair amount of pressure to ships at long range.

Sustained HE weapons are generally in a weird niche, yes, but they do work. Leaning more heavily into HE weapons rather than Kinetic weapons shortens your TTK once you do overwhelm shields.

This is visible in both the Hephaestus Assault Gun and the Heavy Mauler. I'm generally a fan of the Heavy Mauler being high-ish sustained output, premium long range HE.
The Heavy Mortar being HE burst would also be reasonable and make an amount of sense. It's currently... not used all that much?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 06:57:36 PM by Morgan Rue »
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2021, 07:02:56 PM »

have there been any changes to the Contacts so far? Cross-mod contact compatibility seems to be quite an issue such as...

- disabling certain missions from appearing in other factions' bar events.
- enabling certain missions from appearing in other factions' bar events.
- missions not allowing certain factions (only luddic church, path, and hegemony can give you remnant military bounties but what about the other factions?)
and so much more in the later era which I will clarify later in a future thread.

Otherwise, it's a cool mod feature so far, just afraid this problem will come up later on. I've been using it with partial success.

It seems like much of that should be doable by adjusting the mission spec tags; SettingsAPI.getAllMissionSpecs() gives you access to all the mission specs. Or by putting the right tags into person_missions.csv, if the only missions one wants to change are from their mod.

Perhaps worth noting: the various "tag" columns in person_missions can accept a faction id. So if "tagsNotAny" contains "hegemony", that mission won't be offered by a hegemony contact, etc.

apogee no longer available from high tech blueprint, but why?

It's replaced there by the Fury; I think it makes more sense to have a general-purpose combat cruiser in the package than a more specialized exploration ship.


Quote
Bulk Transport: burn bonus increased to +2 (was: +1)
Doesn't this make militarizing a freighter (or for that matter something like Atlas Mk.II) strongly negative? Unless half the bonus still applies to such ships, so final burn remains the same.

It does; in my mind going with "Bulk Transport" has a more civilian-ish feel to it. So if you take that skill, and want to get the most out of it, you also take some potential downsides on sensors (though ofc you could put in Insulated Engines...)

Quote
Quantum Disruptor: removed charges, now just has a 30 second cooldown
Woah, wrecked it (although SysExp will still help)

Is AI smart enough to use it, now that it can't just use the ability a few times for a wider effective overload window? Maybe overload duration could be longer.

I... think it is? Obviously it's less forgiving, but I think it does an ok job with it.

Quote
Heavy Needler: reduced range to 700, to match other needlers (was: 750, bothering me)
I feel like this wasn't really needed balance-wise, but maybe it'll help draw a specialization line between Heavy AC (longer range) and heavy needler (better for knife fighters).

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping, too - well, maybe that's too much, but that's why reducing the range on HN a bit seems better than increasing it on other needlers.

- Mauler changes
Nice, maybe it'll know its old glory again. (In recent versions I'd stopped using it since it just recoils too much after a while)

(That matches up more with how I've been seeing the Heavy Mauler lately.)

Quote
TextFieldAPI
Text input fields?!

Yes!

Quote
createCheckbox
I'm guessing this is a 'real' checkbox as distinct from the existing area checkboxes that cover the whole button?
Is this being used in vanilla GUI too?

Yeah, proper checkboxes. Not used in vanilla (at least, not yet); Jaghaimo asked for these in the API requests thread, and it was fairly easily doable, so!

Quote
Fixed issue where "order a full retreat dialog?" was persistently shown in a battle with allies when none of your own ships were deployed; now it will only be shown once unless the player deploys some ships
Wow this was bothering me so much the last couple of days, great to hear it's fixed!

Hah! *thumbs up*


I thought it was an intentional balance point for it - as long range constant pressure weapon, it matched Hypervelocity Driver in that range bracket. Also kept it from being oppressive due to how common medium slots are - if Mauler will be very accurate, doesn't it sort of nullify purpose of Heavy Mortar too? They will be very similar, only difference being that Mauler has way better accuracy, better damage, more range... making it so much more AI-friendly and usable in general despite higher cost. If anything, in my opnion, maybe Heavy Mortar could use some love or something?

I think a longer delay between bursts helps keep it from becoming too oppressive. As far as the Heavy Mortar, it's more flux-efficient, costs 7 OP to the Mauler's 12, and does about 80% more DPS, so offhand, it seems like it should still remain a fine choice. I do need to spend more time seeing how the Mauler feels, though.


I will note that previously, you could run a Heavy Mauler and use it as sustained pressure to overwhelm shields over a longer period of time. When combined with an HVD, due to it's reasonable refire rate, it can force shields to be up at 1000 SU, and apply a fair amount of pressure to ships at long range.

Sustained HE weapons are generally in a weird niche, yes, but they do work. Leaning more heavily into HE weapons rather than Kinetic weapons shortens your TTK once you do overwhelm shields.

This is visible in both the Hephaestus Assault Gun and the Heavy Mauler. I'm generally a fan of the Heavy Mauler being high-ish sustained output, premium long range HE.
The Heavy Mortar being HE burst would also be reasonable and make an amount of sense. It's currently... not used all that much?

Hmm. I feel like with poor accuracy, the Mauler is hard to make useful - but if it's accurate and sustained, it's too oppressive. And likewise if it just has enough output for its (in)accuracy to matter less. For the Hephaestus, this seems more ok because it requires a large slot.

The Heavy Mortar... my impression is (and person experience seems to support it) that it's pretty useful. If it's not the go-to medium HE option, then what is?
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THEASD

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2021, 07:05:43 PM »

Will there be more API(s) exposed in following days' development/adjustments?

And, I just can't understand why Breach SRM got such a *huge* buff, it performs very well in detaching armor that  Harpoon(even Atropos sometimes) can't handle.
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Caymon Joestar

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2021, 07:29:31 PM »


Noooooooo But I like Aux support, It's fun skill for making ships like the venture actually useful in combat, the skill just needed some tweaks. Will the 2 Packages at least be buffed at least in exchanged?

:( They won't. I like the concept too, but I don't think it works out well in practice, unfortunately.

I believe the problem with the breach srm is that "CONSERVE_FOR_ANTI_ARMOR" tag on it messes with the ai so it will only use it ever to strip armor and not to actually hurt things. Causing it to ignore an exposed hull for an area with armor left.

It will occasionally fire at hull, but generally speaking that's the intended behavior - the missile does a lot of work vs armor and it doesn't make a lot of sense to "waste" it doing what's often relatively minimal hull damage

Why not just increase the other needlers to 750 instead of bringing heavy needler down?

Ah - I don't think buffing the Light Needler to 750 would be a good idea, as it's already quite good, whereas the slight range nerf to Heavy Needler feels just about warranted.


So What happens to the packages then? Are they removed or untouched then? If the latter, that would make them only slightly more useful than something like recovery shuttles.

eh but the problem is at that point, swarmers do the same job as breachers but better since they have way more ammo and do pretty decent dmg to both hull and armor compared to the breach. Especially when you take into account missile specialization/EMR

Maybe not Light needler I agree but I dont think it would have hurt Storm needler. The Heavy needler never felt OP to me I guess. Mostly the issue was a lack of 700-800 range Good Medium anti armor for ballistics beyond the heavy mortar.


Might as well be 700 to match light and storm needlers.  It could not combo very well except with 700 energy weapons like plasma cannon (on Paragon and Ziggurat).  800 range needler would combo well with 900 range ballistics on something like Conquest, but not 750 range needlers - not enough range.

 

I heavily disagree, the heavy needler combos well with heavy mortars and Light assault guns in addition to 600-700 range energies.  The 150 range gap is not big enough of a deal breaker to not use it in combination with a hellbore. If anything, the problem is a lack of another 700-800 anti armor ballistic medium. So it just makes you go "Why dont I just get the op and just combo this 900 range large with an HVD/Heavy mauler instead". Which actually begs a question about range hullmods in the future

For Cruisers/Capitals Non-battlecarrier ships, if you're not going SO or some modded flavor of it, DTC/ITU are basically mandatory. Im worried that the new rangefinder if it doesnt act as alt version of those 2, it will become also mandatory IN addition to dtc/itu and strain our choices of hullmods for builds.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2021, 07:50:49 PM »

Will there be more API(s) exposed in following days' development/adjustments?

Wasn't planning on anything specific there, no - more or less "done" with that for this cycle and moving on to more dedicated playtesting!

And, I just can't understand why Breach SRM got such a *huge* buff, it performs very well in detaching armor that  Harpoon(even Atropos sometimes) can't handle.

I feel like it wasn't quite pulling its weight, still; e.g. I'd like a Fury loadout with something like a Breach Pod and a Pulse Laser or two to be viable, and I feel like it wasn't quite good enough - maybe barely viable.

So What happens to the packages then? Are they removed or untouched then? If the latter, that would make them only slightly more useful than something like recovery shuttles.

They're technically still in the game (for save compatibility) but there's no way to actually get them in a new game.

eh but the problem is at that point, swarmers do the same job as breachers but better since they have way more ammo and do pretty decent dmg to both hull and armor compared to the breach. Especially when you take into account missile specialization/EMR

I'm not sure I see that - Swarmers do next to nothing vs heavy or even middling armor, while the Breach specifically does a ton of anti-armor damage that both 1) is not reduced by armor and 2) does nothing at all to hull. They're very, very different.
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IonDragonX

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2021, 08:11:13 PM »

The only thing i dont get: were energy weapons OP? Why so much buffs for ballistics? I mean: ok, plasma was good. But what else? I understand the asymmetric balance conception, but anyway...
The changes to High Scatter Amplifier have plenty of new ramifications to energy weapons. I think both weapon types were buffed and it will take a lot of data to show which came out on top. Even missiles got a teeny buff with the elite MS skill.

Spoiler
NEW High Scatter Amplifier
  • Reduces the base range of beam weapons to 500/600/700 on frigates/destroyers/larger ships.
  • Beams deal +10% damage.
  • Beams deal hard flux damage to shields.
It perfectly synergizes with EWM skill now.
On paper, it terrifies me to think about an SO Sunder with HSA, 2 Graviton Beams and a HIL
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Will the legendary "Map Pin" mod ever be made? Tune in next time, true believers!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2021, 08:23:42 PM by IonDragonX »
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2021, 08:13:42 PM »

Does any here believe that fighter/carriers will be less viable than before?
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Nia Tahl

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2021, 08:42:27 PM »

Hmm. I feel like with poor accuracy, the Mauler is hard to make useful - but if it's accurate and sustained, it's too oppressive. And likewise if it just has enough output for its (in)accuracy to matter less. For the Hephaestus, this seems more ok because it requires a large slot.

The Heavy Mortar... my impression is (and person experience seems to support it) that it's pretty useful. If it's not the go-to medium HE option, then what is?

Mauler is. It pairs well with both HVD due to range-matching and similar constant pressure and HAC due to equally benefiting from Gunnery Implants. I really don't see any need to change the Mauler at all, it's a great gun thanks to excellent range, decent enough accuracy and solid HE alpha. It can be on a long range pressure loadout with HVDs or a mid-range loadout with HACs where it's accuracy is improved due to shorter engagement range.

Your suggested Mauler change also sounds a lot like a 3-round burst HE medium I have in one of my mods and for that thing to be balanced I had to give it worse recoil than the HAC. That gun actually has less alpha than the proposed Mauler change which just seems laughably OP with good accuracy and 1k range (Mine is 800 range and horrendous recoil)
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