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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 251079 times)

psi_reaver

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #885 on: December 21, 2021, 06:26:10 AM »

About Shield Shunt – am I the only person who thinks, that 0% armor bonus and 50% EMP resistance bonus is much better than 25% armor bonus and 0% EMP resistance bonus?

I use Shield Shunt only with Onslaught, 'cause I don't think it is any good on smaller ships, but the main reason I use it is to mitigate an awful AI behavior when the AI in a ship that has 60000+ hull and 2700+ armor tries to tank all the damage with a tiny ineffective shield, gets 99% hard flux, then stops shooting and slowly dies, effectively doing nothing in order not to get overloaded.

Onslaught with SS can bring nice amount of DPS on the battlefield and already has good survivability without any armor bonuses from SS. EMP resistance was pretty useful 'cause it didn't let enemy ships disabled Onslaught's weapons easily.

Then SS lost it's EMP resistance and got 25% armor bonus. And it was still not that bad, 'cause it let me drop Heavy Armor mod and spent OP on something, that compensates weapon's vulnerability.

Now SS just has nothing. I cannot drop HA, and I still have to compensate somehow missing EMP resistance.

And it feels really bad now 'cause for me as a player it just become kind of tax on AI stupidity. Not only I have to disable a shield completely in order to stop AI from doing stupid things, but, what is worse, I do have to pay for it.
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Zalpha

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #886 on: December 21, 2021, 06:54:29 AM »

I hope this is the place to give feedback on the new patches/updates.

I just want say I miss making my skills elite. The perks I pick now, so few of them allow me to make them elite, I enjoyed doing that so I would like to request more option in making a skill elite.

Also I hate the perk for making your officers have 2 perks because it is the most costly perk you can choose. For one thing it does nothing until you invest more story points and have someone to use it on - all other perks offer you something right away. Another thing is that it is a 2 story point perk before you can get any use out of it. Compare just that aspect to the other perks you can get and it makes it the worst and most costly perk in the game.
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #887 on: December 21, 2021, 07:48:56 AM »

Base game never had elite options for all skills, only for flagship ones.

Voyager I

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #888 on: December 21, 2021, 08:48:47 AM »

I love the idea behind slipstreams and I want to love them in practice, but as-is they've been almost entirely a nuisance so far. Maybe it's different if you're just cruising around surveying and scavenging and don't much mind where, but if you're taking missions and heading for a specific destination the odds have so far been exceptionally low of a slipstream spawning as anything other than an obstacle. I'm on board with the general goal of making hyperspace interactive and this was supposed to be the carrot to the stick of hyperspace storms, but so far they've been another way to get punished for not paying attention to the mundane part of the game.

This moment was the breaking point that made me tab out to make this post:


(and this was after following parallel to the SW Slipstream for an in-game month, with several reloads when cutting too close to a storm or failing to hit S in time got me booped into the stream and blasted downriver)

You just know these jerks are gonna have reversed polarity by the time I finish my mission and try to go home, too.
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Fenrir

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #889 on: December 21, 2021, 09:19:27 AM »

Then SS lost it's EMP resistance and got 25% armor bonus. And it was still not that bad, 'cause it let me drop Heavy Armor mod and spent OP on something, that compensates weapon's vulnerability.

You can always have Armored Weapon Mounts and Resistant Flux Conduits, both works pretty well with Armor-Tanking Soft-Flux-Overflowing Low-Tech ships.

I also would appreciate it if Shield Shuts still gives an EMP resistance bonus as shield is the primary solution against EMP dmg and disabling it should have some compensation (especially when it costs OPs to give your ship a major disadvantage). I donno how the EMP resistance work lore-wisely but 25% would do it, perhaps.
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*cough* try tossing the PK into a black hole *cough*

Delta_of_Isaire

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #890 on: December 21, 2021, 09:55:13 AM »

That's an impressively good hotfix. I love it :)

  • Combat Endurance: increased hull regen level to 50% (was: 25%)
That's beginning to look interesting... I might try it out now.

  • Shield Shunt:
    • Reduced armor bonus to 15% (was: 25%)
    • Can no longer be built into a ship as an s-mod
Every time I try using shield shunt I end up in a situation where a shield would be really useful. Enemies with HIL for instance will hard counter a shieldless ship. Shield Shunt feels like a blunt instrument to fix AI behavior in heavily-armored ships. Directly changing the AI to be more willing to armor-tank light hits would be infinitely better. Though I understand how incredibly difficult AI programming can be, and how fine the line is between 'good armor tanking' and 'taking unnecessary damage'.

  • Breach SRM: reduced armor damage to 250 (was: 300 in -RC5, 200 in 0.95a)
Yup. Breach SRM is the most consistently useful small missile. Good range, good HP, good ammo capacity, and the AI isn't as wasteful with these as it sometimes is with Harpoons.

  • Light Dual AC: reduced range to 600 (was: 700)
    • Range of Light AC remains at 700
  • Railgun: reduced ordnance point cost to 7 (was: 8)
  • Ballistic Rangefinder: increased cost to 10/15/25 (was: 6/9/15)
Reasonable enough.
Funny thing about Ballistic Rangefinder: when combined with IPDAI it no longer buffs small ballistics, as IPDAI changes those to PD. At the same time, IPDAI + Elite Point Defense gives +200 range to all small ballistics, which is a bigger bonus than BRF on ships without Large mounts. Now that BRF is more expensive than IPDAI, and given how important PD is for Low Tech IMO, I can see myself preferring IPDAI + Elite Point Defense over Ballistic Rangefinder in like 90% of cases.

  • Manticore: reduced flux dissipation to 250 (was: 300)
RIP Mjolnir Manticore lol. It makes sense though.

  • Falcon:
    • Increased top speed to 80 (was: 75), improved acceleration/deceleration substantially
    • Reduced supplies/recover and supplies/month to 14 (was: 15)
    • Increased flux dissipation to 400 (was: 350)
  • Eagle:
    • Increased flux dissipation to 600 (was: 525)
    • Increased flux capacity to 11000 (was: 10000)
THANK YOU!

  • Fixed issue with gas giants not getting the "High Gravity" conditions as they should (fix only affects new games)
Good. Now we can finally play a proper game of 0.95.1 :)


(Oh and Advanced Turret Gyros is totally useful. A default pick on any ship with Advanced Optics or turreted HVD/Mauler/Gauss.)
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Candesce

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #891 on: December 21, 2021, 10:07:21 AM »

Because, frankly, I think HSA was a bad idea in the first place and it's a tough one to work with. Some beam weapons are in a place where if you turn them into hard flux dealers without a penalty, the become absolute monsters. The Phase Lance, for example - HSA + Phase Lance basically makes Heavy Blasters entirely obsolete. Reducing range is just about the only way to generically (that is, not on a per-weapon basis) adjust it so that it doesn't end up making a bunch of other stuff useless, and it's far better for it to be extremely situational than it is for it to be too good and therefore the only good choice in many situations.
Hmm.

I haven't been playing the game for that long, so I can't claim any great insight or expertise, but might something like inflicting the Paladin PD's multi-beam effect work as an alternative? If I understand how that impacts armor penetration correctly, it would make beams much less effective versus armor in exchange for being much better versus shields.

I suppose making it look good with an arbitrary beam turret might be impossible, though.
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #892 on: December 21, 2021, 10:33:01 AM »

Is it a bug if you have the Hull Restoration skill, but your one lost ship in a fight, a Kite (A), ends up requiring a story point to recover?  I didn't bother spending the story point, but was just curious if it's intended?
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Zuthal

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #893 on: December 21, 2021, 10:50:18 AM »

I love the idea behind slipstreams and I want to love them in practice, but as-is they've been almost entirely a nuisance so far. Maybe it's different if you're just cruising around surveying and scavenging and don't much mind where, but if you're taking missions and heading for a specific destination the odds have so far been exceptionally low of a slipstream spawning as anything other than an obstacle. I'm on board with the general goal of making hyperspace interactive and this was supposed to be the carrot to the stick of hyperspace storms, but so far they've been another way to get punished for not paying attention to the mundane part of the game.

This moment was the breaking point that made me tab out to make this post:
-snip-

(and this was after following parallel to the SW Slipstream for an in-game month, with several reloads when cutting too close to a storm or failing to hit S in time got me booped into the stream and blasted downriver)

You just know these jerks are gonna have reversed polarity by the time I finish my mission and try to go home, too.

You can get through a slipstream with relatively little effect on your trajectory by e-burning through it - but of course, that costs extra fuel and supplies if you don't have containment procedures. Might be a useful change to allow moving slowly to ignore slipstreams?
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #894 on: December 21, 2021, 10:51:47 AM »

Is it a bug if you have the Hull Restoration skill, but your one lost ship in a fight, a Kite (A), ends up requiring a story point to recover?  I didn't bother spending the story point, but was just curious if it's intended?
That happened to me once, with a high-tech cruiser.  At least it is +100% XP (on something that normally gives less if recovered from the enemy), so it is acceptable (and useful if I am not max level - gotta keep the xp bar green).
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #895 on: December 21, 2021, 10:56:17 AM »

Sound like a better nerf for HSA would be to increase the flux consumption of beam weapons, maybe by 100%?

I've thought about that, yeah! So I know where you're coming from with that idea. I think it'd be too hard to make it work in a "one size fits all" way. That's overall the main problem with the idea, really.

Also, just to Alex's points: HB does full DPS upfront until you get high on flux, so it ends up being 'bursty' in a similar way to PL and thus still does much more upfront DPS IMO. I generally value HB most for its performance chewing through hull, and use it mostly on ships like fury/aurora/doom that can support it pretty well anyway, so I kinda expect the full DPS most of the time.

Fair! Thought I'll say that just about 2x Phase Lance DPS, plus 10%, comes pretty close to matching full HB DPS for that initial 6 second or so window.

Didn't work. It simply lacks the punch. A single AMSRM+cryoblaster burst can one-shot a Fulgent (assuming mines successfully re-oriented their shields) -- that's 6000 energy damage at 1000 hit strength, plus an additional 2800 frag damage at 1400 hit strength (which really becomes 350 to armor/hull). Usually a second dual Cryoblaster burst gets fired before the Doom can phase again. 2 Phase Lances and 4 Rift Lances comes out to a 5500 energy damage burst at 550 hit strength (since it has HSA), then a weaker 2750 energy damage burst (while the Phase Lances are on cooldown). You'd need to do 2 bursts (a strong and a weak), and even if you flicker into phase in between, it's less efficient (a smaller fraction of your cycle time is spent in phase, since you're on unphase cooldown more often), and sticking around for the 2nd burst makes it more dangerous. Even 6 rift lances wasn't as good.

(Just a note that comparing Omega weapons with regular weapons maybe isn't the most fair comparison. And, yeah, Rift Lances in both cases, but they're not the main contributors or that much of a standout, while the AMSRM is *extremely* powerful and only borderline-ok because of the limited number of them being available.)


Just wanted to ask about the rationale behind the extreme resource demands (10 volatiles / transplutonics) of the Fusion lamp and Hypershunt tap items. By the time they can be met the bonuses given by the items barely matter, so why not let us actually use them in the early/midgame phase when they'd be useful? Maybe lower the costs significantly but make it so that it has to be met by in-faction imports (something something safe use requires non-standard exotic componds mixed in the supply due to copyright issues or whatever)? For the Hypershunt tap the player has to beat one of the most difficult combat encounters AND fork over a fortune's worth of materials to fix the Hypershunt, isn't that enough?

It's mostly so you have something to mess around with once the campaign is just about "won". Though as you noted, the lamp is usable and potentially useful before that point!


About shield shunt makeshift shield situation, imo banning shield shunt from being S-modded is preferable way, shield shunt + makeshift shield is interesting combo (even if not very useful one) and removing it coz S-mod exploit is bad idea, shield shunt is extremely cheap Hmod i don't see point in ever S-modding it

Hmm, interesting.



It's not quite clear enough to me how polarized armor and shield shunt work now, so ill ask here.
Is it that it gets upto 50% increase at 50% hardflux, or is it 50% increase at 100% hardflux?
As conseqence to this, is shunt with polarized armor still getting 50% increase, or is it only getting 25%?

It's 50% at 100% hard flux, so shunt with polarized armor would get a permanent +25% armor strength from Polarized Armor.

I can't speak for Alex's vision for HSA, but to my eyes HSA could be a way to turn 1000 range beams from long-range pressure weapons into proper hard flux support weapons for large energies, similar to Ballistic Rangefinder for small ballistics. The problem is that hard flux also makes short burst beams (Phase/Rift Lance) too much of generalist weapons.

The answer I think is to make HSA's penalty disproportionately impact short burst beams: flat -300 to base range, does not affect PD (similar to Ballistic Rangefinder). This way:

That's an interesting analysis, but the problem is you end up with small energy weapons dealing hard flux at 700 range, which is in the small ballistic range band, and combined with high-tech ships being faster, this is generally not a good place for the design to go.

I love the idea behind slipstreams and I want to love them in practice, but as-is they've been almost entirely a nuisance so far. Maybe it's different if you're just cruising around surveying and scavenging and don't much mind where, but if you're taking missions and heading for a specific destination the odds have so far been exceptionally low of a slipstream spawning as anything other than an obstacle. I'm on board with the general goal of making hyperspace interactive and this was supposed to be the carrot to the stick of hyperspace storms, but so far they've been another way to get punished for not paying attention to the mundane part of the game.

This moment was the breaking point that made me tab out to make this post:

(and this was after following parallel to the SW Slipstream for an in-game month, with several reloads when cutting too close to a storm or failing to hit S in time got me booped into the stream and blasted downriver)

You just know these jerks are gonna have reversed polarity by the time I finish my mission and try to go home, too.

Hmm. I wonder if this is something where being more aware of the seasonality of their directions would help? In playtesting, I've been aware of that and generally deciding which missions/bounties/etc to take - and when to go do them - with that in mind. And slipstreams have not been more than a minor hindrance, and most often quite helpful. (They go left-to-right in the first half of the year, and the reverse of that in the second. June and December is when they dissipate.)

This isn't something the game explains super well or upfront and it's meant to be something you pick up on (with, I think, only the slipstream tooltip hinting at this, and a "tip" explaining it), so perhaps it's too subtle.

But, with that awareness... you would only very very rarely end up in the situation you're describing - if the stream layout happened to be the relatively rare "random" one, and you got unlucky. Otherwise, if you're following the seasonality, it'd either 1) be going roughly where you want, or 2) you'd only need to cross it. Or at least, if you're going against the prevailing winds, so to speak, you'd know what you're getting into.

That said, I've got some ideas about letting you get some info on the current state of the streams ahead of time, which should hopefully help both with this and with planning how to take advantage of them.


That's an impressively good hotfix. I love it :)

:D

Funny thing about Ballistic Rangefinder: when combined with IPDAI it no longer buffs small ballistics, as IPDAI changes those to PD. At the same time, IPDAI + Elite Point Defense gives +200 range to all small ballistics, which is a bigger bonus than BRF on ships without Large mounts. Now that BRF is more expensive than IPDAI, and given how important PD is for Low Tech IMO, I can see myself preferring IPDAI + Elite Point Defense over Ballistic Rangefinder in like 90% of cases.

One thing to note there is BRF modifies base range, so any percentage bonuses apply to that bonus, too. That said, IPDAI + Elite PD would still be more range unless you're getting over +100% range bonuses somehow, but there *is* also the opportunity cost of picking up Point Defense, so this feels like more of a playstyle choice - and it seems nice that it's a viable one!


I suppose making it look good with an arbitrary beam turret might be impossible, though.

Yep! That, and also making it work with an arbitrary beam would be quite a pain, too.

(Hi, and welcome to the forum, by the way!)



Is it a bug if you have the Hull Restoration skill, but your one lost ship in a fight, a Kite (A), ends up requiring a story point to recover?  I didn't bother spending the story point, but was just curious if it's intended?

Ugh, that sounds like a bug, yeah. Looks like there's a fairly low chance of this happening if the ship was "destroyed" (and not "disabled") - hah, looks like the skill description is accurate after all. And Hull Restoration does greatly reduce the chance of it happening. Fixed this up, though.
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prav

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #896 on: December 21, 2021, 11:09:53 AM »

I've been toggling dev mode for full slipstream visibility every time I got out for a mission to see if there is a convenient slipstream that I might just be missing otherwise, but I'm just not finding any useful lines very often at all.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #897 on: December 21, 2021, 11:14:57 AM »

I've been toggling dev mode for full slipstream visibility every time I got out for a mission to see if there is a convenient slipstream that I might just be missing otherwise, but I'm just not finding any useful lines very often at all.

This - toggling devMode - is going to result in serious issues regarding some bar missions etc and I very much don't recommend it. You could just use Neutrino Detector instead. But, right - slipstreams aren't going to be something that comes in handy all the time.
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Zaizai

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #898 on: December 21, 2021, 11:19:35 AM »

HSA was already pretty bad as range is one of the thing one would choose beam weapons for, I honestly can't see any reason to use it in place of similarly ranged energy weapon alternatives, other than the fact that I love beams as a weapon type. 
I have a suggestion that might be hard to implement but might be a way to balance HSA in a fun way. 
Whenever HSA is active, beam weapons deal 25 or 50% of their damage as fragmentation, but they keep their regular range. 
This means that they are nerfed quite a bit in direct damage and it would take a lot longer to penetrate enemy shields, but they would inflict hard flux in exchange. 
Would work for support type beam ships as pure damage wasn't their main goal anyway, opportunistic ships with HIL would still benefit from the fragmentation damage from hitting the hull, and 1 vs 1 scenarios would be nerfed but by keeping the range, beam weapons would still feel different and have their niche, and I wouldn't feel bad about not getting plasma cannons or pulse lasers on my ship instead.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #899 on: December 21, 2021, 11:31:16 AM »

Hmm - that's an interesting idea, and frag damage for "high scatter" is thematic! The thing with beams keeping their regular range, though - imagine something like the Odyssey vs an Onslaught. You could outrange it and deal hard flux safely (with some allowances for burn drive, but that could be managed).

Or, heck, for a better example - a beam Aurora could kite almost any other cruiser all day with zero risk and with nothing they could do about it. I'm not offhand sure if "beams + optics + cruiser-level ITU" outranges "large non-Gauss ballistic + capital-level ITU"... so that's 1000 * 1.4 + 200 = 1600 for the beams, and 900 * 1.6 = 1440 for the ballistics, right? With skills - most notably Ballistic Mastery - mixing things up a bit, but not enough. So that same Aurora could kite and take down almost any capital ship with impunity, too, the only possible exception being the Paragon. It just gets very non-interactive and boring - I'm not sure you can combine "better mobility" with "better weapon range with hard flux damage" and get good results.
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