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Author Topic: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?  (Read 4633 times)

hydremajor

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2021, 03:10:18 PM »

A way of getting rid of flux is introducing a wing commander-esque quadrant shield system, wether thats possible or not with modding alone is a complete mystery

Makes it so flux is really only a heat mechanic that slows weapon fire and gets rid of overloads completely wich is probably what the OP hates about this
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2021, 04:11:14 PM »

If you really want to eliminate flux while doing the least violence to the game's systems, probably the lowest-impact way would be to make a 0-OP hullmod that:
- increases flux dissipation and capacity by some silly amount,
- reduces overload duration to a very short time (0.1s or less),
- reduces weapon flux costs to 1% of their current values,
And while that won't precisely be a 'complete removal', it'll be better than one, because it'll allow you to selectively ignore flux on your own ships while preserving the status quo for enemies, and most of all, preserving AI behavior as much as possible.

I also think it'll be cripplingly dull and about as much fun as watching paint dry, but I'm not the OP, maybe that's their jam. It was a fun thought exercise, though.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2021, 08:48:32 PM »

If you really want to eliminate flux while doing the least violence to the game's systems, probably the lowest-impact way would be to make a 0-OP hullmod that:
- increases flux dissipation and capacity by some silly amount,
- reduces overload duration to a very short time (0.1s or less),
- reduces weapon flux costs to 1% of their current values,
Wouldn't that make shields have a silly amount of HP? That sounds more like an invincibility cheat than a reasonable balance change.
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Vanshilar

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2021, 09:30:55 PM »

I think you need to think about what you mean by removing flux.

In Starsector, flux basically represents "waste energy" or "excess heat", basically, something that's undesirable. You start with zero, and as you use your weapons to do damage or use shields to absorb damage, you build up this quantity, until you max it out, at which point you need to back off or start taking damage to your ship.

By contrast, in a game like Star Control, you start with a full amount of "fuel", which you use up as you fire your weapons. In this case the more you have, the better. Star Control didn't have shields, but it's easy to imagine that you could implement shields in Star Control just by having it take away some of your fuel when it absorbs damage (the shields using your fuel to power it).

So if your objection to flux is that you don't like the idea of "waste energy" or "excess heat" that a ship wants to get rid of, it should be pretty straightforward to mod Starsector (assuming you can modify the UI; I don't know how easy or hard it is to do that) to convert it to a concept like "fuel" or "energy" instead: You start with a full energy bar, and that bar decreases when you fire weapons or use your shields to absorb damage, and then you have to wait to regain energy (just like how you have to wait for flux levels to decrease). The conversion is, very simply, just "energy = max flux - current flux". It's a very straightforward change because only the player-facing UI needs to change, and all the game's underlying mechanics stay the same.

If your objection to flux is that you don't like the concept that different weapons cost different "things" (energy, flux, whatever) to use, and that you also use those "things" to deflect enemy ships' weapons, then you might have to explain why you feel this way. After all, this concept (or a related concept) has been central to this genre of game since Star Control and probably before. (I think Spacewar also had a similar system right? I haven't played it in a while...) Flux is really the same thing, but dressed up as a negative quantity to minimize that increases when you attack, rather than a positive quantity to maximize that decreases when you attack.
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Sozzer

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2021, 01:58:01 AM »

(I think Spacewar also had a similar system right? I haven't played it in a while...)
Quote

(it did, fuel for movement and a limited supply of torpedoes)
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2021, 06:47:02 PM »

Wouldn't that make shields have a silly amount of HP? That sounds more like an invincibility cheat than a reasonable balance change.
Removing flux is an inherently unreasonable balance change, so I'm offering what I think is the best way of doing something I think is inherently a very bad and goofy idea. That's not me saying it's suddenly a good idea; just that this is the least bad version of it.

Realistically, nobody who cares about balance would make this change, so why not hand them a version that makes it obvious?
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FenMuir

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2021, 02:20:47 AM »

I don't imagine Starsector would be particularly fun without flux. How would shields work? Would they just have a set amount of health that replenishes as they heal?

The real question to ask is WHY does OP want to play without it. I assume it is the dance that happens between the ship being able to fire forever and survive combat.

I have a ton of builds here that worked well for me. Most of them can be left to the AI with little to no issues. I recommend piloting phase ships since they tend to benefit greatly from the player.
Here are the builds: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDjE6j_BlALjMaftWdOYABXvfpjX51Znd

Enjoy.
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hydremajor

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2021, 11:33:15 AM »

I don't imagine Starsector would be particularly fun without flux.

dunno, did you try playing starsector but there's no shields for any ship ?

I imagine it turns into a completely different ball game as frigates become VASTLY more valuable and capitals/cruisers would be little more than a waste of ressources....
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Thaago

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2021, 12:03:52 PM »

Huh, without shields I'd assume the opposite... a big tanky cruiser/capital can just pop a frigate before they even get into range. Bonus points for tachyon lances and beams in general!
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Igncom1

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2021, 12:12:06 PM »

You either have flak, or torpedoes rule  8)

It would make for a great conversion mod, but probably not suited for the base game.
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SCC

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2021, 12:15:22 PM »

dunno, did you try playing starsector but there's no shields for any ship ?
All I can hear is "Omen meta".

SafariJohn

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2021, 01:23:02 PM »

Nah, Omens go splat without shields. It would definitely be a beam meta because shields are the hard counter to beams.
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Gothars

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2021, 01:44:17 PM »

I imagine heavily arnored ships with HE weapons would comletely dominate.
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hydremajor

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2021, 01:50:58 PM »

Nah, Omens go splat without shields. It would definitely be a beam meta because shields are the hard counter to beams.

Until you realise ships that CAN mount beams get eviscerated by anything dealing HE in seconds flat

I imagine heavily arnored ships with HE weapons would comletely dominate.

Likewise stuff like the Onslaught or Dominator (for our example) would get eviscerated by torpedoes as now they are COMPLETELY dependant on their flak screen and once armor gets peeled even a vulcan is gonna a big problem

the only thing that would be a pain to deal with would be phase ships but thats relatively nothing new

Although you'd see Paragons drop like they're atlases because they couldn't get out of the way of HE damage so there's that

It would be a evasion meta mostly focused on either mobility systems or MASS EMP spam
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Igncom1

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Re: Is there a rebalance mod with flux completely removed?
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2021, 02:38:52 PM »

It is really fascinating seeing hightech ships get overwhelmed by mass missile/rocket/bomb attacks because their fancy hightech point defence lasers simply cannot kill them fast enough.  ;D

Lowtech's plethora of extra ballistic mounts can make a ship near impervious to missile attack..... so long as their flux holds out.
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