Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo  (Read 1244 times)

SafariJohn

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3010
    • View Profile
Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« on: November 03, 2021, 10:59:14 AM »

If you are inhospitable with a faction, they won't give you docking clearance at their markets. The same principle should apply with market supply/demand so faction hostilities have clear and direct economic consequences.

For example, if a market demands 7 fuel, but is inhospitable or hostile with all 7+ fuel suppliers, they should get a shortage equal to their deficit.

Vice versa, if a supplier is inhospitable or hostile to every market that demands a good at their supply level, they should be stuck with a surplus.
Logged

JUDGE! slowpersun

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 614
    • View Profile
Re: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2021, 11:13:25 AM »

I thought that a player being hostile with some factions affects that player's colonies by reducing accessibility stat, which kinda achieves the same effect... just not literally the same effect.  But basically the same end result?
Logged
I wasn't always a Judge...

SCC

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4112
    • View Profile
Re: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2021, 01:37:08 PM »

I thought that a player being hostile with some factions affects that player's colonies by reducing accessibility stat, which kinda achieves the same effect... just not literally the same effect.  But basically the same end result?
I'm pretty sure that already happens?
If your colony needs 7 units of fuel and you make Sindrian Diktat vengeful to you, your colony will have its demand met unless your colony's accessibility dips below 70%. SD relations will have some impact on accessibility, but SD's a small fraction of NPC factions, so despite being logically able to prevent you from getting enough fuel to satisfy your demand (being the only faction that can do so), the impact of hostilities will almost certainly be insufficient to force your accessibility below 70% and if it isn't, you will get fuel from Sindria.

Yunru

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2021, 04:33:43 PM »

Huh. I always thought hostile Merchant fleets wouldn't visit, and without them no trade would occur.

SafariJohn

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3010
    • View Profile
Re: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2021, 05:19:23 PM »

Merchant fleets only affect the economy if they are lost. That causes shortages and an accessibility hit.
Logged

IonDragonX

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
    • View Profile
Re: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2021, 05:47:05 PM »

I support this suggestion! It would make the economy feel dynamic.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2021, 08:47:05 AM »

Hostilities go both ways.  If they embargo, then my faction should embargo too, yes?  But... I would not want my faction to embargo enemies because I want their money!  If the enemy is crazy enough to buy stuff from my faction, I will gladly take their money!  If NPCs did not have unlimited resources, they too (in general) should accept my money.

If I gladly let my enemies trade with me (I would because I want their money), then most if not all factions should gladly trade too.  I guess NPCs can afford to embargo because they have unlimited resources, but that smacks of cheating if they embargo solely because they are aware they are NPC factions with unlimited resources.  They should embargo because of their character, similar to atrocity reactions.

Maybe embargos should be a faction setting.  Pirates are angry at everyone, but they gladly trade with anyone (even if they need to smuggle).  Tri-Tachyon appears to be a completely amoral faction who cares about money and tech above all else.  Maybe uptight factions like Hegemony or the Church would entertain embargos.

P.S.  Then again, embargos might exacerbate shortages for NPC vs. NPC interactions (if applied fairly), making it easier for the player to exploit for big money.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 08:49:32 AM by Megas »
Logged

SafariJohn

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3010
    • View Profile
Re: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2021, 09:12:44 AM »

That would be free ports, right? That would cover pirates, TT, and player.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2021, 09:36:04 AM »

That would be free ports, right? That would cover pirates, TT, and player.
Not really.  Not all of their worlds have Free Port.  Also, Diktat is another faction that would strike me as wanting money more than embargo, and they are not very free.

One handy pirate planet, Umbra for the Volatiles trade run with Sindria, is not a free port.

Culann in Hybrasil is not a Free Port.

For my colonies, I do not use Free Port until near the end of the game, when I can take the stability hit and my colonies defenses are strong enough to stop expeditions without my intervention.  In my last game, I did not get that far before I ended my game (because I started permanent colonies late) and never used Free Port because I did not want spend too much time going all over the place to babysit my colonies, and because Commerce inflicted -3 to colonies.  (Also, my one or both of my habitables had Decivilized Subpop., which really hurt - my game had a crappy planet seed.)
Logged

JUDGE! slowpersun

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 614
    • View Profile
Re: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2021, 10:05:35 AM »

Maybe embargos should be a faction setting.

This seems to be the most reasonable suggestion, just too bad this prolly won't be dealt with until a more legitimate diplomatic system/code is added to game.  Annoying, but makes much more sense in terms of game dev.  2023 it is!

Also, the plural is spelled embargoes, English is weird like that.  Same grammatical root plurality issue as tomato and potato... not trying to call you out since ESL might be a thing, more for future reference.
Logged
I wasn't always a Judge...

SafariJohn

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3010
    • View Profile
Re: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2021, 10:10:59 AM »

Those factions' and markets' #1 goal is not making money. They want power. Embargoes have negative consequences, sure, but a well-planned embargo can be a powerful weapon.

If a player wants to wage war, they should suffer the consequences.


Look at the positive side: if two factions are crippling each other's economies with embargoes, you can swoop in and make a lot of profit.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2021, 10:22:41 AM »

Quote
If a player wants to wage war, they should suffer the consequences.
Meanwhile, NPCs try to bully the dragon (endgame-strength player) with their endless expeditions, and player has no way to stop them aside from sat bombing them off the map.

I would like some way to crush NPC factions short of sat bombing them off the map.

Player may not want to wage war, but most factions do after the player grows big enough.  They are the ones who draw first blood, and they become too dumb to live after a certain point.  It would be nice if there were options that did not involve extortion on the player or his faction, or genocide on them.

Quote
Those factions' and markets' #1 goal is not making money. They want power.
But they need some money to get that power, or at least they would if they were not NPCs with unlimited resources accessible at-will.  Player needs money to become the superpower more powerful than all the core worlds combined.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 10:37:03 AM by Megas »
Logged

Helldiver

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
  • space fruit
    • View Profile
Re: Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2021, 12:59:32 PM »

+1 to this.
Logged
Afflictor bean plushie that glows purple when you squeeze it
30$
Pages: [1] 2