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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Uniquifying the Factions, Part 2 (04/30/22)

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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] Ore Refinery v0.65 - 03/10/22  (Read 29177 times)

5ColouredWalker

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Re: [0.95a] Ore Refinery v0.5 - 11/11/21
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2021, 09:42:50 PM »

@ 5ColouredWalker Hi and welcome to the party!
I can maybe add another toggle ability to this mod that does a reverse effect but the downside however would be a substantial loss in the cost of heavy machinery and not very profitable otherwise it would be a cheat and you may as well use console commands to poof it into your cargo. I will look into both ideas and tinker under the hood and see what I can come up with without going outside of the scope of this mod.
Glad to be here! Trying this out has made me actually want to use mining. Got a full mining fleet going at the moment.

I made the request before actually trying it out as an idea. From use, the colonies that pay most for it tend to be ones with shortages of the same material, so the work's half done. Adding a Structure (Wouldn't want to do it as an industry) wouldn't play well with mod factions and/or Nex randomizing so I understand not doing it.
As for a free backwards toggle being a cheat, it's not necessarily an economical use for the conversion in the first place and the main use case would be countering stability penalties. One way to prevent it from being a cheat would be to skew so the conversion is less economical. That said, when it comes to stability penalties, you can always drop off your concentrated goods, then go shopping for actual goods to reduce stability.

Finally, any intentions for Volatiles (Probably something along the lines of high density batteries, since volatiles are used to create antimater fuel.), which while rarer are picked up with mining, or for Food? (High density rations maybe? I bring food up because I almost never bother picking it up while exploring. It's the third least valuable commodity, only worth touching if you know you're taking it to somewhere with a severe shortage.)
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95a] Ore Refinery v0.5 - 11/11/21
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2021, 02:17:53 AM »

Oh I agree an industry would be unsuitable since their slots are limited. If I were to do it, it would be like the colony building in my faction mod that just takes a regular slot but is a cash earner. I tinkered with the idea of Volatile conversion but it is already at a high price and it is not as vast a get as the other three. As to food conversion, I get it but I think that goes outside the scope of this being a mining utility. As to the reverse conversion, it would have to be carefully done because I believe that would circumvent the economy base restrictions. The game wants you to fly around and price shop if economy is your playstyle.

I am currently in a deep dive fixing my third mod but I will be adding a toggle for volatiles for the next release probably by over the weekend.

Dazs

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Re: [0.95a] Ore Refinery v0.55 - 11/20/21
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2021, 08:53:44 AM »

0.55 release today - see changelog for details

@5ColouredWalker - I added a the ability you requested Ty for the input

@All - The new ability was very tricky to balance since the base value of Volatiles is higher than Heavy Machinery and their values do not divide into whole numbers. No matter what amount of compression I tired I would always get a .4 overflow. If you want the actual math used I will detail it but TLDR:

The compression actually gives you 1.1 output which after 10 cycles in the same session gives you an extra ComV. To complicate matters it also throws off the Heavy Machinery use so with higher % increases using salvage gantries and nanoforges you will sometimes use +/- 1 the amount shown. To compensate for this, I set the output of CompV to round up instead of down to account for the discrepancies by giving overall additional credit value. This is also why the compression is so low compared to the other abilities. I tested this numerous times but if you find it to be otherwise please let me know. (Yea that's the TLDR version lol)

CrimsonPhalanx

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Re: [0.95a] Ore Refinery v0.55 - 11/20/21
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2021, 09:54:03 AM »

This mod makes mining so much better, although I wish the salvage gantry buff scaled with ship size.
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95.1a] Ore Refinery v0.6 - 12/13/21
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2021, 04:30:56 AM »

This mod makes mining so much better, although I wish the salvage gantry buff scaled with ship size.

I am happy that you find it useful, so sorry I missed your post thus the delay in response. As to the salvage gantry scale, maybe with a hull size array modification, not sure but I'll look into it for the next update.

Speaking of updates - 0.6 released today - Tested and adjusted to ensure compatibility with 0.95.1a

CrimsonPhalanx

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Re: [0.95.1a] Ore Refinery v0.6 - 12/13/21
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2021, 12:40:17 PM »

I am happy that you find it useful, so sorry I missed your post thus the delay in response. As to the salvage gantry scale, maybe with a hull size array modification, not sure but I'll look into it for the next update.


Its alright, just a suggestion in case the array thing does not work, would having the modifier be related to the fleets actual salvage bonus value(with a multiplier) be better? since salvage gantries already scale, not to mention it'll mean other potential hullmods from other mods that affect salvage will be counted as well. the player skill bonus could be minused off before the multiplier if they have the skill if you want it to not count. Only issue I see is reversing the diminishing returns, unless the raw undiminished values exist somewhere.

and if you could forgive me for digging up some older topic since a random haphazard idea popped into my mind.
I do not see a way to add an industry that does similar with the Palladium Platinum and Biophotovoltaics.

apart from the best solution to go under the hood and make the AI see the compressed goods as their uncompressed counterparts right after it enters the market,

A jury rigged solution that I'm not sure if its a good idea or not might work, attaching the conversion feature to something that exists in every colony/colony that uses the stuff, such as making the base "Population and infrastructure" not demand any compressed goods, but will convert them when available.
well I have no idea how the colony does calculations under the hood so there might be some weird supply and demand issue(like making a colony that normally does not produce ore suddenly produce an oversupply of it after dumping Platinum)
although the potential thing I can see is that it might mess with compatibility since it does sound quite destructive to blanket modify the base industries
then again I'm not sure if all that complication is worth the result


look forward to the next update!


on a side note
As to food conversion, I get it but I think that goes outside the scope of this being a mining utility.
Makes sense, and since food is like one of the only things that get constantly dumped now, I like to imagine one of the crew members doing some large scale space HowToBasic whenever it gets dumped  :D
"Captain, what do with do with the ore?"
"refine it"
"How about the food?"
*starts recording while throwing food out the airlock screeching
« Last Edit: December 22, 2021, 01:05:44 PM by CrimsonPhalanx »
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: [0.95a] Ore Refinery v0.5 - 11/11/21
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2021, 02:56:41 PM »

As to food conversion, I get it but I think that goes outside the scope of this being a mining utility.

That sorta cuts both ways, but yes, since you mod author, you can call it what you please.  But arguably this ceased to be a mining utility mod once volatiles and organics became "compressible" (although, yes, you do mine for these also, since drilling isn't a separate industry...).  However, the solution would be to either convert ferment food into luxury goods/booze (with a very terrible conversion rate), or future science voodoo convert food into organics (ie, bioethanol), but also with a not great conversion rate.  But admittedly this would perhaps be a moot point unless and until mod splits (again!), which is entirely your prerogative.

But I can't finish my current run fast enough to try this mod out in a mining run, killing me that I'm having too much fun with my current run (shoving wrecks around with Odyssey's plasma burn is just too entertaining!).
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95.1a] Ore Refinery v0.6 - 12/13/21
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2021, 05:51:50 PM »

Wow that is a lot of care and attention in those last posts. I thank you for taking the time to share them.

Its alright, just a suggestion in case the array thing does not work, would having the modifier be related to the fleets actual salvage bonus value(with a multiplier) be better? since salvage gantries already scale, not to mention it'll mean other potential hullmods from other mods that affect salvage will be counted as well. the player skill bonus could be minused off before the multiplier if they have the skill if you want it to not count. Only issue I see is reversing the diminishing returns, unless the raw undiminished values exist somewhere.

As a base the game does add up all the repair gantry values and assigns a total value based on the size of the ship with the gantry. So a gantry installed on a frigate give far less value than a gantry applied to a cruiser. I may be able to tap into that and change the base values in the mod to scaling values. A pie in the sky idea at this stage but all my mods were at the start. Idk if I can do it but the journey will be interesting.

and if you could forgive me for digging up some older topic since a random haphazard idea popped into my mind.
I do not see a way to add an industry that does similar with the Palladium Platinum and Biophotovoltaics.

apart from the best solution to go under the hood and make the AI see the compressed goods as their uncompressed counterparts right after it enters the market,

A jury rigged solution that I'm not sure if its a good idea or not might work, attaching the conversion feature to something that exists in every colony/colony that uses the stuff, such as making the base "Population and infrastructure" not demand any compressed goods, but will convert them when available.
well I have no idea how the colony does calculations under the hood so there might be some weird supply and demand issue(like making a colony that normally does not produce ore suddenly produce an oversupply of it after dumping Platinum)
although the potential thing I can see is that it might mess with compatibility since it does sound quite destructive to blanket modify the base industries
then again I'm not sure if all that complication is worth the result

look forward to the next update!

I would be unable to do that at a colony level as it would effect other modders code and would most likely make it incompatible with the mods that directly effect planets. As to decompressing the custom commodities, I am unsure how I would go about that. The output commodities are a combination of the base commodity and heavy machinery. If I were to add code to decompress it and keep it balanced, the credit loss in decompression would be a great.

As to food conversion, I get it but I think that goes outside the scope of this being a mining utility.
Makes sense, and since food is like one of the only things that get constantly dumped now, I like to imagine one of the crew members doing some large scale space HowToBasic whenever it gets dumped  :D
"Captain, what do with do with the ore?"
"refine it"
"How about the food?"
*starts recording while throwing food out the airlock screeching

Food is tricky. I agree that when you get it you get a ton of it and it has minimal value so I can see how a compression would sort of fall into what this mod is about. The thing is, you do not receive it as part of mining which is what I meant by it being outside the scope of the mod. I can see a way to making a, well let's call it a food processor or a baking oven :), but food is such a random acquire. A player may get a few hundred food in one loot but then not see it again for months (game time) so is it worthwhile to have yet another action button for it?

CrimsonPhalanx

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Re: [0.95.1a] Ore Refinery v0.6 - 12/13/21
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2021, 06:23:00 PM »

The output commodities are a combination of the base commodity and heavy machinery.

I'm wondering why would we even get the heavy machinery back, personally I'd glady pay all that heavy machinery as the cost of compression(heck I'll even accept a 10%-20% resource loss on compression). Having a cost will also give not compressing the stuff an advantage as well, turning compression into a decision, rather than the be all end all solution. I mean even 20% value loss is a cheap price to pay for what, 100 times more cargo space?


Makes sense, and since food is like one of the only things that get constantly dumped now, I like to imagine one of the crew members doing some large scale space HowToBasic whenever it gets dumped  :D
"Captain, what do with do with the ore?"
"refine it"
"How about the food?"
*starts recording while throwing food out the airlock screeching

Food is tricky. I agree that when you get it you get a ton of it and it has minimal value so I can see how a compression would sort of fall into what this mod is about. The thing is, you do not receive it as part of mining which is what I meant by it being outside the scope of the mod. I can see a way to making a, well let's call it a food processor or a baking oven :), but food is such a random acquire. A player may get a few hundred food in one loot but then not see it again for months (game time) so is it worthwhile to have yet another action button for it?

I wrote that as more of joke/personal reasoning about getting rid of food, since I'd imagine it being pretty funny for scavengers to find the cargo pods of only food and wonder who hates food that much.

I'm totally fine with not being able to compress food since its an exploration phase issue that gets less common as time goes by, because at that point, might as well compress everything for no reason, am I right? I didn't mean it as a "please add compression for food" message.
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95.1a] Ore Refinery v0.6 - 12/13/21
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2021, 04:53:55 AM »

Well I guess I could put together a function that takes the custom commodities and convert them back to their base w/out using heavy machinery. As you pointed out, the initial cost of heavy machinery to make it would be costly enough if I decompress it based on the source commodity. It'll take some tinkering and with the holidays incoming it may take me awhile but even if only 2 people use the function, it give me something to putter around with. :)

As to the food comments, yea I get the joke. It is just I take suggestions no matter how they are parsed to heart. I was playing this morning and when mining a planet I received food as bonus loot and I thought, well that's karma for you!

JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: [0.95.1a] Ore Refinery v0.6 - 12/13/21
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2021, 09:24:29 AM »

I was playing this morning and when mining a planet I received food as bonus loot and I thought, well that's karma for you!

Prolly more coincidentally ironic than karmic.  Peeps seem to forget karma is only assessed upon death... but that's definitely a discussion the requires more alcohol!
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Rotok

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Re: [0.95.1a] Ore Refinery v0.6 - 12/13/21
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2022, 02:47:12 AM »

Is it possible to make this a ship ability, assigned to a certain type or class of ship (or only accessible as an ability if you have that ship in your fleet?)?
Love the idea of the 'Nostromo' style massive ship Ore Processors from Alien.
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95.1a] Ore Refinery v0.6 - 12/13/21
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2022, 05:21:55 AM »

Hi there, that's a good question and thank you for taking the time to ask. I originally had this mod as a core feature of my Junk Yard Dogs mod and the plan was to tie it into a ship like Vayra's Bear (love that ship and hope she comes back). However I received numerous comments asking if I could make it a separate mod for players who enjoy mining but want to commission as another faction like Roider's Union.

I have spent so much time working on my two faction mods that I have been neglecting this one, it is apropos that you ask now lol. I am currently working on trying to take all four abilities and combine them into one ability to save on button space. Now as to making that a ship system, I have not done any custom system code yet so though I think it is a great idea, I am unsure if I can do that. It would also be hard to implement in this mod since it does not contain any ships. I really want to figure out ship systems and this would be a great place to start.

Once I have the code streamlined to one ability button (I hope) my next planned step now is to step into ship system code and hopefully implement what you ask. I would introduce it as separate download that includes a ship with the system which would satisfy players like yourself as well as players who like it as is.

You bring up the Nostromo (great pull) and I am thinking the Canterbury so I assume you are talking about a capital class ship correct?

Rotok

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Re: [0.95.1a] Ore Refinery v0.6 - 12/13/21
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2022, 08:20:00 PM »

I appreciate the response!
Correct; A massive lumbering ship :)

Hi there, that's a good question and thank you for taking the time to ask. I originally had this mod as a core feature of my Junk Yard Dogs mod and the plan was to tie it into a ship like Vayra's Bear (love that ship and hope she comes back). However I received numerous comments asking if I could make it a separate mod for players who enjoy mining but want to commission as another faction like Roider's Union.

I have spent so much time working on my two faction mods that I have been neglecting this one, it is apropos that you ask now lol. I am currently working on trying to take all four abilities and combine them into one ability to save on button space. Now as to making that a ship system, I have not done any custom system code yet so though I think it is a great idea, I am unsure if I can do that. It would also be hard to implement in this mod since it does not contain any ships. I really want to figure out ship systems and this would be a great place to start.

Once I have the code streamlined to one ability button (I hope) my next planned step now is to step into ship system code and hopefully implement what you ask. I would introduce it as separate download that includes a ship with the system which would satisfy players like yourself as well as players who like it as is.

You bring up the Nostromo (great pull) and I am thinking the Canterbury so I assume you are talking about a capital class ship correct?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2022, 08:24:00 PM by Rotok »
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95.1a] Ore Refinery v0.6 - 12/13/21
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2022, 03:05:05 AM »

OK I think I have a hull idea in mind, that's the easy part. Trying to combine all 4 into one script well not so much, had to scrap and start over twice so far heh. I would need to do that first to then convert it into a ship system. May take me a bit but I'll keep plugging at it.
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