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Author Topic: [0.97a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.9.3 - 03/10/24  (Read 201609 times)

CptSpecter

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #330 on: March 01, 2023, 09:05:56 PM »

Hey just hopping to say that I love the mod and it's vision.
I was looking for something that integrates drones and fighters into a lot of ships, as soon as I saw the borer equipped mudskipper I fell in love.
Thanks a lot for all the time and effort.
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #331 on: March 02, 2023, 02:11:42 AM »

Hey just hopping to say that I love the mod and it's vision.
I was looking for something that integrates drones and fighters into a lot of ships, as soon as I saw the borer equipped mudskipper I fell in love.
Thanks a lot for all the time and effort.
Wow what a nice thing to take the time and consideration to say. You've made my morning for sure and I haven't even had my coffee yet!

Aristedes

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #332 on: March 05, 2023, 06:09:44 AM »

Love the mod overall, but I feel that some of the ships have completely insane OP ratings.
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #333 on: March 05, 2023, 06:14:39 AM »

Love the mod overall, but I feel that some of the ships have completely insane OP ratings.
So nice to hear thank you. I am curious which ships you find to be insane OP and some clarity as to why would be helpful.

Serina

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #334 on: March 05, 2023, 10:28:29 AM »

First of all, I really like the design of this faction, being rugged explorers and miners armed with automated drones. I love the aesthetic of the re-fitted ships, and how the faction seems to be able to cram an assortment of guns and drones on even the tiniest ship.
That said, I just have to ask: has anyone here actually tried to fight a medium-or-bigger JYD fleet?
Because I'm at a loss at how to counter the, frankly, insane drone spam.  :-\
I can pit my entire fleet of 30 ships(including several capitals) against a similar JYD fleet, and if I'm lucky, I'll be able to take down ~5 frigates before my entire fleet is swarmed and "processed" by mining drones.
It doesn't seem to matter how much DP I put on my ships; as soon as I kill one drone, five more will have respawned from any of the 30 ships fielded by the JYD fleet.
Meanwhile, all the JYD has to do is stay slightly outside of my weapon range and just send virtually infinite drones at me. They're not even manned, so I can't even win the war of attrition by killing their crew.

Please help. :D
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #335 on: March 05, 2023, 10:54:12 AM »

First of all, I really like the design of this faction, being rugged explorers and miners armed with automated drones. I love the aesthetic of the re-fitted ships, and how the faction seems to be able to cram an assortment of guns and drones on even the tiniest ship.
That said, I just have to ask: has anyone here actually tried to fight a medium-or-bigger JYD fleet?
Because I'm at a loss at how to counter the, frankly, insane drone spam.  :-\
Hello there and thank you for the kind words. I recently stripped out the drones on several ships so I am curious if you are using the latest version. My intention for them is to be a fairly neutral peaceful faction unless you play as a pirate, they HATE pirate factions. That in mind, I gave them some teeth to counter the pirate fleets that go after them and usually the Hegemony turns on them since they use automation. I have done several balance passes but I do try to keep the previous statement in mind when I do. I am waiting to see if Aristedes can give more clarity on their statement before I made any further adjustments however I will keep your comments in mind as well.
I can pit my entire fleet of 30 ships(including several capitals) against a similar JYD fleet, and if I'm lucky, I'll be able to take down ~5 frigates before my entire fleet is swarmed and "processed" by mining drones.
It doesn't seem to matter how much DP I put on my ships; as soon as I kill one drone, five more will have respawned from any of the 30 ships fielded by the JYD fleet.
Meanwhile, all the JYD has to do is stay slightly outside of my weapon range and just send virtually infinite drones at me. They're not even manned, so I can't even win the war of attrition by killing their crew.

Please help. :D
In your scenario of fighting a 30 ship fleet I would suggest you field at least two large carriers equipped with good interceptors and all PD weapons on the ships, at least one tank like capital and some fast cruisers with good ranged weapons to catch their fleeing ships. The rest of the fleet you can fill with w/e else is on hand. Their shields are average but have good armor so I'd suggest more explosive weapons equipped. Overall good PD coverage on your ships and longer ranged weapons are the key. Hope that helps but please consider not picking on my doggos. :)

Serina

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #336 on: March 05, 2023, 11:09:36 AM »

Quote
In your scenario of fighting a 30 ship fleet I would suggest you field at least two large carriers equipped with good interceptors and all PD weapons on the ships, at least one tank like capital and some fast cruisers with good ranged weapons to catch their fleeing ships. The rest of the fleet you can fill with w/e else is on hand. Their shields are average but have good armor so I'd suggest more explosive weapons equipped. Overall good PD coverage on your ships and longer ranged weapons are the key. Hope that helps but please consider not picking on my doggos. :)
Now that you mention it, I am infact a version behind. On version 2.5.
I usually try to avoid changing/updating mod in running saves, and I'd rather avoid having my savegames broken due to incompatibilities.
I'll try updating and see if that makes things a bit more manageable. And sorry; usually I leave the woofers alone(I especially love all the ship names), but I'm playing as a pirate on this playthrough. :(
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #337 on: March 05, 2023, 12:18:20 PM »

Now that you mention it, I am infact a version behind. On version 2.5.
I usually try to avoid changing/updating mod in running saves, and I'd rather avoid having my savegames broken due to incompatibilities.
I'll try updating and see if that makes things a bit more manageable. And sorry; usually I leave the woofers alone
2.6 is save compatible to 2.5 so you should not have an issue updating and keeping your current save, keep a copy of 2.5 if you want to be absolutely sure. It removes all the drones from their dedicated carriers so you should see a difference.
(I especially love all the ship names),
Dad jokes are best jokes :) I took inspiration from Ian M Banks Culture series, look it up if you like a good sci fi read.
but I'm playing as a pirate on this playthrough. :(
Naughty noo-noo!

AKAJIA

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #338 on: March 06, 2023, 12:01:55 AM »

Hi Dazs, I think Drones & Missiles is a bit too OP.
JYD_mrm, JYD_srm, JYD_af surpass missiles of the same class in terms of the number of ammunition and the interval between launches.
And JYD's drones are so good, numerous, powerful, with mining capabilities. I think you should give these drones and missiles some restrictions.
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #339 on: March 06, 2023, 12:58:49 AM »

Hi Dazs, I think Drones & Missiles is a bit too OP.
JYD_mrm, JYD_srm, JYD_af surpass missiles of the same class in terms of the number of ammunition and the interval between launches.
And JYD's drones are so good, numerous, powerful, with mining capabilities. I think you should give these drones and missiles some restrictions.
Good morning, thank you for the input. I had made the drones at different times over the course of the mod so they are certainly due for a balance pass when looking at them as a whole. The missiles have large ammo counts as a player request but I'll give them a comparison pass to others of their class. I'll add both to my to-do list for JYD, no ETA on it thought as I am currently working on CFT and Hiver updates.

AKAJIA

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #340 on: March 07, 2023, 10:08:46 AM »

Hi Dazs, I think Drones & Missiles is a bit too OP.
JYD_mrm, JYD_srm, JYD_af surpass missiles of the same class in terms of the number of ammunition and the interval between launches.
And JYD's drones are so good, numerous, powerful, with mining capabilities. I think you should give these drones and missiles some restrictions.
Good morning, thank you for the input. I had made the drones at different times over the course of the mod so they are certainly due for a balance pass when looking at them as a whole. The missiles have large ammo counts as a player request but I'll give them a comparison pass to others of their class. I'll add both to my to-do list for JYD, no ETA on it thought as I am currently working on CFT and Hiver updates.
I will look forward to it. Thank you for your hard work!
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #341 on: March 07, 2023, 12:46:41 PM »

Hi Dazs, I think Drones & Missiles is a bit too OP.
JYD_mrm, JYD_srm, JYD_af surpass missiles of the same class in terms of the number of ammunition and the interval between launches.
And JYD's drones are so good, numerous, powerful, with mining capabilities. I think you should give these drones and missiles some restrictions.
Good morning, thank you for the input. I had made the drones at different times over the course of the mod so they are certainly due for a balance pass when looking at them as a whole. The missiles have large ammo counts as a player request but I'll give them a comparison pass to others of their class. I'll add both to my to-do list for JYD, no ETA on it thought as I am currently working on CFT and Hiver updates.
I will look forward to it. Thank you for your hard work!
Thank you for the kind words. :) First I will address missiles and later, once I get more clarity, drones since most of them are equipped with JYD missiles and the concern may be linked.

I did a deep dive comparison to vanilla and other mod missiles vs JYD's and talked to some players who have helped me do balance passes in the past and came to the (frankly perhaps TLDR) following conclusions:

The LRM is moderately better than current Pilum at doing armor damage if it actually hits. However it is too fast to crate the "Plium effect" of frightening ships from dropping shields or venting to clear hard flux which is their main purpose now. It is very similar to old pilum trading the loitering fear for somewhat faster salvos. But not enough to take advantage of very high flux or a brief overload at any significant range or evade point defense so its a tradeoff.

The SRM has more ammo than the sabot but is easier to stop/kill and has the same range. The missiles I compare to for power reasonableness are the reloadable ones from Machina Void Services, the Vedhas from Kyeltziv, the small and medium Nixus from LTA, the Jannisary, Jericho, and Jaya from Kadur, and the Seth small and medium from HMI. And on those terms they seem comparable.

The problem could be due to the trend of vanilla missiles being generally weak and Alex nerfing the good ones over time. Some more clarity would be helpful because when someone says "missiles of the same class" it sounds like they are referring to just vanilla. Hard to tell because I so seldom use limited ammo missiles because I find them almost useless except for the Squall which is sadly getting nerfed so when that happens expect to see a JYD squall analog. :)

TLDR conclusion pending further clarification from you is that JYD missiles are fine compared to typical mods though some are modestly better than vanilla for ammo cap, which isn't difficult :) The bar I use when designing missiles is "Are they better than leaving the slot empty and spending the OP on something else and do they offer something different from vanilla".

I look forward to any clarity that you can provide so I can focus in and address a specific concern better.

CptSpecter

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #342 on: March 07, 2023, 08:00:24 PM »

Hey just hopping to say that I love the mod and it's vision.
I was looking for something that integrates drones and fighters into a lot of ships, as soon as I saw the borer equipped mudskipper I fell in love.
Thanks a lot for all the time and effort.
Wow what a nice thing to take the time and consideration to say. You've made my morning for sure and I haven't even had my coffee yet!

Glad to hear all that! I really like the faction and everything the mod stands for.
If you don't mind my input, I'd like to say that when balancing something, maybe try not to strip the ships of its drones. It's one of the things I love the most about the mod and in my opinion a bit of the heart of the faction. Maybe try removing some of the armaments or restricting OP or something, I'm not much of an expert but would hate to see the fighter bays and drones go away from lots of ships.
Hope it doesn't bother you!
Thanks for the awesome content and all the effort put into it.
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Dazs

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #343 on: March 07, 2023, 08:11:20 PM »

Glad to hear all that! I really like the faction and everything the mod stands for.
If you don't mind my input, I'd like to say that when balancing something, maybe try not to strip the ships of its drones. It's one of the things I love the most about the mod and in my opinion a bit of the heart of the faction. Maybe try removing some of the armaments or restricting OP or something, I'm not much of an expert but would hate to see the fighter bays and drones go away from lots of ships.
Not to worry, the JYD ships all having drones is a key concept of the mod so that is not going away. I only removed them from the dedicated carriers because I received a couple reports that it was interfering with the computer controlled carriers. The mod has gone through several balance passes since release and I feel it is in a good place atm so not too many more changes will be made before the next Starsector update.
Hope it doesn't bother you!
Thanks for the awesome content and all the effort put into it.
It is no bother at all and thank you again for the kind works, much appreciated. I am always open to comments or suggestions for my mods. I see them as a group effort with the end goal of offering the best version I can and being a solo act I get blind spots that others see.

Aristedes

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Re: [0.95.1a] Junk Yard Dogs - V 2.6 - 02/23/23
« Reply #344 on: March 11, 2023, 01:47:32 PM »

Love the mod overall, but I feel that some of the ships have completely insane OP ratings.
So nice to hear thank you. I am curious which ships you find to be insane OP and some clarity as to why would be helpful.

The ones that stand out the most are the ships whose descriptions are all "Flagship of XYZ".
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