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Author Topic: About plasma cannons....  (Read 3839 times)

hydremajor

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About plasma cannons....
« on: April 20, 2012, 03:11:01 AM »

Okay so....

I'm sorry but 900 Flux per shot seems overkill, I'd rather use Auto-pulse cannons or High intensity lasers and then switch to tachyon lances if I can somehow find a good supply of thoses, but REALLY atm the Plasma Cannon feels kinda....Well stupid really...

Damage output comparable to a tachyon lance but the range, OP cost and the overall fact that the Plasma bolt bursts are NOT insta-hit/fast-moving completely kills the point of even using that damn gun...

I just don't see the damn point in using thoses when just about everything else in its class is better while even sometimes costing less OPs AND less creds....
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Cryten

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Re: About plasma cannons....
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2012, 04:54:33 AM »

Heh its damage output is way higher then the tachyon lance, which is a beam support weapon. Tachyon lances major helping factor is that the AI is dumb enough half the time not to shield against its blasts but that a different matter entirely.

Plasma is the heavy blaster of the large slot, featuring the highest damage per second of energy slots, all of which is front loaded into its barrage with a decent cooldown afterwards. The setup of the energy tree is as follows:

Beams are fire support weaponry that pressure shields and help swat down fighters. Low DPS, High Range, low to mid flux rates, doesnt add any damage which cant be disapated with shields up.
Pulse weaponry is the sustained damage type of energy, Mid Range, Mid Dps, effecient mid range flux
Burst Lasers are a mix of pulse weaponry and the below Strike weaponry, featuring front loaded decetn dps which then shrinks to normal damage rates in sustained fire. Mid to low DPS, Mid Fluc rates
Strike Weaponry, Including plasma and blasters, High Damage, Longish Cooldowns, High Flux use.

You see the game isnt very static and different weapons are brillant at different roles. Plasma and its strike kin are great for breaking through shields before your opponents can respond and which hitting armour quickly destroy shield with their high base damage. However since they cost so much if they fail to crack a vessel the attacking ship often has to retreat vent then reengage. Burst and Pulse are good for longer engagements with thier flux efficiency. Beams are often great at pressuring shields from a distance but offer very bad damage unless your riding your flux levels to max.

Its all about balance but as my passionate rebuttle may indicate I disagree with your position. They are very fun capital crackers to bring along to your personal high tech flagship. If your not using them right as a support weapon then I thouroughly agree but theres no need for a change its just your not setup to use it.

Also on a side not its 899 flux per second not per shot, and thats averaged over the full firing and recharge cycle including the three shot burst. Nothing else in the game can bring so much damage to the table as quick as plasma.
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Alrenous

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Re: About plasma cannons....
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2012, 05:14:03 AM »

What are you using the plasma cannons on?

I have a Paragon build that replaces the tachyons with plasma, and it's so powerful I was able to take off hardened shields because everything dies so quick.

I have an Odyssey build that has plasmas, and I haven't yet managed to get it to perform against anything more powerful than a destroyer.
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Thaago

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Re: About plasma cannons....
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2012, 08:41:01 AM »

My problem with the plasma cannons is that they are actually pretty wimpy weapons for their OP cost and role. They do ~ 140% the damage of heavy blasters for 250% the cost. They are a little bit more flux efficient and have higher burst damage, but I would far far prefer a 'double heavy blaster' weapon for 30 OP. Of course that would consume 1440 flux per second, but it would also pump out a ruinous amount of damage.
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Wyvern

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Re: About plasma cannons....
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2012, 09:16:48 AM »

Huh.  Whereas I look at the heavy blaster, and think to myself, "Why on earth would I want one of these, when I could get a plasma cannon that does way more damage for about the same flux generation?" - plus the plasma cannon's high per-shot damage helps to make enemy shields overload for longer, and is notably better at punching through armor.  And, even if you assume that you aren't maxed out on vents and could replace a plasma cannon with heavy blaster + 18 vents, the plasma cannon still wins on sustained damage output, too.

The only ship (that has a large energy slot) where you can't reasonably mount a plasma cannon is the Sunder - it just doesn't have the flux reserves to support it.  And, well, if you're trying to put heavy blasters on a Sunder, may I suggest looking at the Medusa instead?  It'll probably perform rather better.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Thaago

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Re: About plasma cannons....
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2012, 10:27:40 AM »

It probably comes down to playstyles.

To me though, its not way more damage for about the same flux. Its 40% more damage for 25% more flux. Directly comparing their damage/flux ratio's the plasma is 12.5% better than the heavy blaster. I'm not saying the plasma cannon is a bad weapon - it does have the highest damage output of any energy weapon and if that is what you are optimizing for and have every other weapon already damage optimized then the plasma cannon is the way to go. But the difference between it and the heavy blaster (not counting like ~20k credits) is not large enough given the 30 OP price tag.

I will give you that vents are normally maxed out so its not fair to compare the plasma cannon to a heavy blaster with 18 vents. But those 18 points can also go into many very useful things: integrated targeting, hardened shields, thrusters ... for me its not so much a question of the single weapon damage as the global effect that those 18 OP can have on the ship. For me 162 DPS with moderately better efficiency (and better overloading and anti-armor performance...) is not worth 18 OP. It seems that for you it is, which is fair enough.

Yeah, I tried flying Sunder's not in a tachyon support role and never got the hang of them. My personal favorite medusa does indeed mount 2 heavy blasters and 2 railguns - those 2 medium slots put out much more damage than a single large would with a plasma cannon, and for less OP.
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Wyvern

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Re: About plasma cannons....
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2012, 11:02:26 AM »

Right now, there are only two Sunder setups I've been able to use effectively; my favorite is lance + 2x light needler - lance does long range sniping of fighters, and provides vaguely tolerable anti-armor damage, while the needlers take down shields - and my flux reserves are deep enough that I mostly don't have to care about not having PD.  (Plus EMP damage means I can snipe off enemy missile launchers.)  This setup makes an excellent flagship for a small fleet.

The other one that kinda mostly works is autopulse + 2x pulse; it's a bit of a bear on flux usage, but it's decent firepower.  Works best with some support (or as support), though, while the lance version is much more suited to wandering around on its own.

Should be much better next version, though, with increased flux capacity, increased dissipation, and better HILs and Autopulse lasers.  Heck, depending on how the burst mechanics work out, you might even be able to install a guardian PD and not feel like it was a waste of a slot.

The medusa... I prefer pulse lasers over heavy blasters, usually; heavy blasters just eat up flux way too fast, and I much prefer sustainable damage output over burst, run away, vent, repeat.  Still, the medusa is fast enough that you can get away with that tactic.

There is one ship I've found that gets good use out of a pair of heavy blasters, even with my combat style: the Aurora.  Disregard its missile slots, give it forward mounted heavy blasters & ir pulse lasers, and it's got deep enough flux reserves to just shred small things, and the mobility to back off from bigger targets that might not die in the first pass.  (Or you can always mount a few harpoons; a salvo of six of those is usually a solid finisher once enemy shields are down...)
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.