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Author Topic: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?  (Read 3924 times)

bob888w

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Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2021, 04:03:27 AM »

Is there a situation aside from lack of OP where the autopulses do better than plasmas, I know I can recharge them in fortress but the plasmas I can use whenever I'm not over fluxes providing more flexibility to me
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Grievous69

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Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2021, 04:11:21 AM »

Is there a situation aside from lack of OP where the autopulses do better than plasmas, I know I can recharge them in fortress but the plasmas I can use whenever I'm not over fluxes providing more flexibility to me
Breaking shields quickly? Plasmas win long term of course. I prefer Plasma cannons in hardpoints but if I don't have them I'm happy to use Autopulses instead.
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Igncom1

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Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2021, 04:17:45 AM »

I find plasma to be FAR too flux expensive for my AI ships.

Autopulse are my large energy of choice when shooting at shields.
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Megas

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Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2021, 05:42:09 AM »

Autopulse is okay against light resistance, but not in a protracted fight against tough multiple enemies.  Autopulses are not enough firepower if the ship does not get a break to recharge them.
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Zonk

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Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2021, 08:14:07 AM »

Megas makes a really good point about charging autopulses. The AI will try its best to save up charges but doesn't always succeed. I think it would be better as a player-piloted ship if you're using autopulses since you have the discretion of when to fire. Additionally, their damage potential is hugely reduced if you don't take Expanded Magazines and their range is subpar.

I have had the most success with a Paragon fit that has mostly empty weapon slots. I have 4 Tachyon Lances (I swapped 1 out for a Dorito weapon but lances are good if you don't have), 1 tactical laser, and 5 LR PD lasers in the rearmost slots. All the other OP goes to maxing flux and shield stats with all peritinent hullmod, as well as Reinforced Bulkheads (s modded) and Blast Doors to give it over 30,000 hull.

The tactical laser is only there so I can see what the ship is trying to shoot at, as it has the same range as the lances. I have found that when I fully fit small and medium weapons to every weapon slot on my Paragon, not only do the weapons never match the damage output of 4x tachyon lances, but I cannot max vents/caps and have to drop hull mods.

With Elite Energy Weapon Mastery for my officers, this fit can fire its tachyon lances indefinitely. And unlike a fully fit Paragon, when surrounded with many cruisers or smaller, this fit will not become overfluxed just by firing its own weapons. This makes it way tankier and able to continually fire its lances for an entire battle without needing to stop to vent. It also makes the Paragon way tankier, as saving 1000 flux/second means an extra 3000 damage per second you can tank with the paragon's 0.33 shield flux/damage stat. This was really important for me when fighting star fortresses and remnant battlestations!

Good luck with whatever you do, Paragon is the best capital ship by far so it's hard to go wrong.

Edit: this fit probably won't look super impressive against the sim paragon. But put a sim-fit Paragon vs. a big fleet or star fortress and compare it to one with just 4 lances and you'll see why the sim isn't a good way to compare!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 08:21:56 AM by Zonk »
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Megas

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Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2021, 10:53:33 AM »

About autopulse and plasma.

When I tried five autopulses on Radiant (because I had nothing better at the time), it killed that one enemy it had its sights on.  The problem was when my Radiant got in over its head (and it frequently did thanks to Fearless behavior).  Because Radiant is so overpowered, it could survive at times despite lack of firepower from drained autopulses, but... sometimes, Radiant died because it was overwhelmed by multiple attackers.  Once I replaced the five autopulses with three plasma cannons, it did better in the fights five autopulse Radiant had trouble with.  And with two large mounts freed, I could use either missiles (for alpha striking) or Paladin PD.

Paragon is kind of like Radiant, but with fewer large mounts and less mobility.

P.S.  Rift Cascade Emitter
Is there any advantage to using this pig instead of Tachyon Lance?  Paragon is all about range (with ATC), but Rift Cascade Emitter needs its explosions to maybe do better than normal lances, but the chance of explosions decrease with range.

I have tried Rift Cascade Emitter, and I really want to like this weapon, but with its cost and performance, I cannot justify using this instead of Tachyon Lance.  And if I need to get close to maximize the explosions, I rather drop the weapon and get plasma cannon instead to beat all of their defenses down.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 11:01:29 AM by Megas »
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Thaago

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Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2021, 11:41:49 AM »

Autopulse has one nice thing where its charges come back while in fortress shield, so its long term DPS is very low for a large weapon but also doesn't dip because of being 'off'. Plasma cannons have so much more DPS and anti-armor though that they are better as long as the flux last, but nothing has the flux to run 4/5 of them. Like Megas I like combining the two guns: you get an efficient alpha strike to batter down shields from the autopulse, then the plasma takes over DPS and anti-armor duty.

My one complaint about autopulse and other charge based weapons is that the AI will fire them at long ranged fighters/frigates that it can't hit and waste the burst. Gunnery Implants helps a lot, as does 100% CR in at least getting some of those shots to hit.
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Igncom1

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Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2021, 11:58:06 AM »

Yeah I usually run autopulse along side T-Lance or HIL whenever I can.

Plasma doesn't really need help, but is appropriately expensive.

I have had one of my AI Apogees sit in-between an Onslaughts main guns, slowly blasting it to death with the plasma cannon. It's hilarious!
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Jo Jo

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Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2021, 03:30:58 PM »

Huh. I didn't anticipate HVDs doing more work than Heavy Needlers. I guess that 250 range difference really does count. Just swap back to Heavy Needlers, when you go dance with the Remnants - you will need all the shield damage you can get...

I hear you!
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Jo Jo

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Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2021, 03:35:42 PM »

Autopulse has one nice thing where its charges come back while in fortress shield, so its long term DPS is very low for a large weapon but also doesn't dip because of being 'off'. Plasma cannons have so much more DPS and anti-armor though that they are better as long as the flux last, but nothing has the flux to run 4/5 of them. Like Megas I like combining the two guns: you get an efficient alpha strike to batter down shields from the autopulse, then the plasma takes over DPS and anti-armor duty.

My one complaint about autopulse and other charge based weapons is that the AI will fire them at long ranged fighters/frigates that it can't hit and waste the burst. Gunnery Implants helps a lot, as does 100% CR in at least getting some of those shots to hit.

100% in agreement!
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2021, 04:02:35 PM »

Just a thought on testing methodology, if you have a fight with multiple paragons, I would expect the one with the most range to do the most damage almost always, simply because it will get to shoot first and kill things before the shorter range variant gets to do anything. I think a more fair test would be to run the same battle with a single paragon and some supporting cast multiple times, and then switch the variants out in each test.

For more practical in-game testing, I tend to use a loadout for 5-10 similar difficulty battles and average the damage, then switch loadouts and fight another 5-10 battles. I think that is a more reliable way of assessing performance in a fleet context.
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