Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?  (Read 3918 times)

Jo Jo

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« on: September 25, 2021, 01:57:58 PM »

I just received my first two Tachyon Lance weapons, and I've been experimenting. I'll be darned if I can make a better fit against the AI Paragon in the fitting screen battles than the fitting I have below. Do you use Tachyon Lance on Paragon or is there another ship that really allows them to shine. I don't fly my own ships, so fits needs to be AI friendly.

Here's the best Paragon fit against the Paragon AI in the fitting screen battles:

Built in: Hardened Shields Reinforced Bulkheads
Hull mods: Stabilized Shields, Flux Distributor, Expanded Magazines, Accelerated Shields, Solar Shielding*
Weapons: 2x Heavy Needler, 4x Atropos-Class Torpedo Rack, 4x Autopulse Laser, 4x Graviton Beam, 4x Tactical Laser, 5x LR Point Defense Laser

I tried switching out the front two Autopulse for two Tachyons, and I just couldn't get the enemy Paragon's shields down nearly as fast as with the AutoPulse. Plus, the extra flux resulted in the two Tachyons being disabled most of the time since the AI ended up dropping shields to reduce flux more often. Increased weapon flux from the Tachyon Lances really screws with the AI's ability to use them. I tried to balance out the flux by reducing some of the weapons or going with more flux-efficient weapons, but same result. Either I can't get the enemy Paragon's shields down or I generate too much weapon flux and the AI drops the shields on my ship. There has to be an AI friendly way to use a Tachyon weapon, though I haven't found it yet.

*Have to keep Solar Shielding so I don't loose my marbles when flying through hyperspace
Logged

intrinsic_parity

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3071
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2021, 02:07:06 PM »

If you're testing only against a paragon in a 1v1, then auto pulse will seem much better. Tac lances are basically anti-armor weapons with ion utility. They are not the best against ships with very good shields. The big advantage of tac lances is 1000 range burst damage, making them good at picking off smaller ships, good at cutting through heavy armor and hull and also allowing you to influence a much larger area of the battlefield. None of that will be obvious from a 1v1 vs another paragon.

Also, you should consider leaving slots empty when outfitting, there's no reason to fill every slot, and often you are just making your ship worse.
Logged

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2975
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2021, 02:08:09 PM »

Well first things first. Dueling with capitals in simulator is pointless as that sort of battles never happen in campaign (flashbacks to posts where poeple showed off they can 1v1 a sim Onslaught), sim variants aren't the best in the world, they serve their purpose that's all, and finally your build is very specialised to fight another high tech ship.

Lances in general are very strong when massed, but become useless against anything you cannot overwhelm, for example [REDACTED] enemies. This is why I always have a pair of Autopulses or Plasma cannons on my Paragon(s), I prefer Plasma cannons in the front tho. 4 Tach lance Paragon is a meme that actually works, but only vs low tech enemies such as pirates and Ludds.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

SCC

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4112
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2021, 02:14:27 PM »

For the AI, I'd probably go with 2 Autopulse Lasers, 2 Tachyon Lances, 2 Heavy Needlers, 4 Ion Pulsers and 4 PD Lasers (enough for coverage from all sides), and maybe also with 4 Reapers. It might not perform as good in a mirror match, sure, but it will rarely ever happen in a proper battle, and your Paragon is not going to be alone (unless you really screw up), so performance in a mirror match is not that important.

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2975
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2021, 02:17:00 PM »

I don't see why would you ever put missiles on a Paragon. It's like attaching a slingshot on a bazooka.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

Igncom1

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1496
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2021, 02:19:47 PM »

Harpoon missiles make for great fly swatters.

No need to have these glorified mobile spacestations waste their time with small fry.
Logged
Sunders are the best ship in the game.

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2975
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2021, 02:24:55 PM »

And that's why you put 2 Phase lances or Pulse lasers in mediums, it helps to have a pair of shorter range weapons so those can be on defense duty. 12 Harpoons for 16 OP on the biggest battleship in game that you're probably using for very long fights doesn't seem like a smart investment to me.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

Igncom1

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1496
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2021, 02:27:44 PM »

Woah woah woah woah....

Who said ANYTHING about being smart!?  ;D

(It's more fun then min-max effective. And missile are effective! But yeah not like she's a missile boat or anyhting.)
Logged
Sunders are the best ship in the game.

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7173
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2021, 02:39:45 PM »

I think sabots or reapers can be a decent investment in those small slots - sabots mostly against shield tanks that rush in close, reapers for having a nice 16k damage punch available.

Re: The listed build. It seems a bit light on flux to be honest. What happens if you replace 2 of the autopulses with plasma cannons? I'm also not a huge fan of the beams, though I suppose 4 grav 4 tacs is enough to burn out frigates/destroyers from a long way away.
Logged

Jo Jo

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2021, 02:54:32 PM »

Oh my. So many answers. :o I'm about to go after a few larger bounty missions will will allow me to try different configurations on my four Paragons. Let's see how it goes in battle!  :D

Edit: I have four Paragons and I fit them each differently depending on the recommendations. Funny is that they all beat the Paragon AI considerably faster than my original build. I'll use the mod that gives statistics to see how things end up.

Grievous69 recommended Phase Lances or Pulse Lasers. I went with Phase Lances.
SCC: Reapers, 2x Tachyon, 4 ion pulse, and 4x PD
Thaago: 2x Plasma Cannon
Default fit: 4x Autopulse as described in the OP
« Last Edit: September 25, 2021, 03:16:49 PM by Jo Jo »
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2021, 03:37:54 PM »

Paragon is probably the best user of Tachyon Lance.

My goto is plasma cannons in the hardpoints and tachyon lances in the large turrets.  Plasma cannons beat down shields (and everything else), and lances snipe at Radiants (or other slippery ships) that try to flee after they lose the flux war from plasma barrage.  I leave front two medium energy mounts empty (because heavy weapons and/or rear weapons build up flux high enough already).

Tried four autopulse or two plasma cannon only loadouts.  Radiant flees almost every time without taking damage when they lose flux war.  With some lances, Radiant usually takes hits from lances even after it leaves the range of my hard flux weapons.  Also, lances are good at swatting small stuff.

That said, four autopulse is basic (and somewhat common) and will smash plenty of human targets.  I have used that before I collect the good stuff.

Four lances are good against human fleets, but falter against Remnants with Radiants.
Logged

Jo Jo

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2021, 03:40:42 PM »

Results of the first battle, where all four Paragons were dumped into the game at the same time.

200k Bounty - Ships in battle

https://www.dropbox.com/s/27cdcxo06cnuq0k/First%20Battle.png?dl=0

SCC's fit came out on top and the default was dead last.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/req46t496sr9gnt/Scc%20Grievous.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k59ra7pwruw531b/Thaago%20Default.png?dl=0
Logged

Jo Jo

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2021, 03:42:37 PM »

Paragon is probably the best user of Tachyon Lance.

My goto is plasma cannons in the hardpoints and tachyon lances in the large turrets.  Plasma cannons beat down shields (and everything else), and lances snipe at Radiants (or other slippery ships) that try to flee after they lose the flux war from plasma barrage.  I leave front two medium energy mounts empty (because heavy weapons and/or rear weapons build up flux high enough already).

Tried four autopulse or two plasma cannon only loadouts.  Radiant flees almost every time without taking damage when they lose flux war.  With some lances, Radiant usually takes hits from lances even after it leaves the range of my hard flux weapons.  Also, lances are good at swatting small stuff.

That said, four autopulse is basic (and somewhat common) and will smash plenty of human targets.  I have used that before I collect the good stuff.

Four lances are good against human fleets, but falter against Remnants with Radiants.

Sounds like a powerful fit. Megas, I'll have to try yours on a future bounty. My ships are out flying around now. ;)
Logged

Jo Jo

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: September 25, 2021, 05:09:41 PM by Jo Jo »
Logged

SCC

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4112
    • View Profile
Re: Tachyon Lance or Paragon Fit?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2021, 11:31:48 PM »

Huh. I didn't anticipate HVDs doing more work than Heavy Needlers. I guess that 250 range difference really does count. Just swap back to Heavy Needlers, when you go dance with the Remnants - you will need all the shield damage you can get...
Pages: [1] 2