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Author Topic: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack  (Read 99027 times)

Weftin

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2021, 04:52:11 AM »

Man, some of those names looks very familiar, did you played World of Tanks

No, I used the wikipedia page for WW2 UK tanks for the names. So that's why there are similarities

Francis

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2021, 07:58:27 AM »

Ships look cool! Believe it will be a pretty good mod! ;D ;D
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ArkaneKannon

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2021, 02:31:18 AM »

Great pack, Though whenever I mouse over the Deacon cruiser in the custom production menu it throws [drone_pd] not found and CTD. Other wise, haven't had any other issues.
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Weftin

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2021, 05:53:49 AM »

I'm getting the drone_pd crash from this mod, any workaround?

Great pack, Though whenever I mouse over the Deacon cruiser in the custom production menu it throws [drone_pd] not found and CTD. Other wise, haven't had any other issues.

pushed out a hotfix, this issue should be resolved

Weftin

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2021, 05:57:28 AM »

pushed out a hotfix, this issue should be resolved

I should also mention this likely happened because I was using a ship system from 0.9 that isn't on ships anymore, this bug will likely cause more crashes in the near future so I'll need to deal with them as they come

Oni

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2021, 07:00:55 PM »

.... pushed out a hotfix, this issue should be resolved
Umm...  :-[
Would it be possible to have a version number on the download file?
Just so we can make sure we get the latest version and aren't using the old one (I keep track of my 50+ mods by checking version numbers  :P ).
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Weftin

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2021, 07:29:41 PM »

Umm...  :-[
Would it be possible to have a version number on the download file?
Just so we can make sure we get the latest version and aren't using the old one (I keep track of my 50+ mods by checking version numbers  :P ).

Sure, I'll add that next time I fix something

Stuffwriter

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2021, 09:17:31 PM »

I have some feedback if you're willing to consider it. I've played a lot of mods and vanilla and have a decent sense of what "vanilla balance" is. How you decide to balance is up to you, of course. Making a mod is a lot of work, and I appreciate the time you're willing to dedicate to it.

If your intent is to provide ships that approach vanilla balance, you're a little off the mark so far. Let me provide a few examples:

Churchill Class Battleship
- Too many weapon mounts and not enough DP to use them
- Weapon arcs are very generous. Too much ability to focus fire on one spot (even though it doesn't have enough DP)
- Shields are a little on the strong side
It feels like this ship was designed to not be able to use it to its full potential since it is so DP starved. That is a little frustrating as there are no vanilla ships like this. I recommend removing some of the weapon mounts, making some of them smaller, or both. Alternatively, greatly increasing the available DP would help but make the ship dramatically more powerful.

Chaffee Gunship
- Low firepower
- A little small for a destroyer but big for a frigate (if that makes sense)
- A large mount on such a small ship is awkward to use because of flux requirements

Alecto Frigate
- Seems to be missing a medium weapon mount in the center. Looks strange
- Severely lacking in firepower
- Very low DP cost

Humber Frigate
- An adorable little ship that is undergunned for its cost
- I like the idea of a mobile frigate with mostly missile mounts

Challenger Cruiser
- Undergunned and severely under DP'd for a cruiser. Is closer to a destroyer in performance.


I think you may still need to do some tuning of the numbers for your ships. Compare the values you're using against other ships of similar sizes. Your DP point values are a little low across the board, and your flux dissipation and maximums are all over the place.

I recommend trying to think of a theme that these ships will fit to.
- Are they slow and fragile, but perhaps wielding above average flux stats?
- Are they flux starved but durable? (Think low-tech)

To me, these ships are (generally) long and thin with overlapping fields of fire. To me, they appear that they should be slow moving, decently durable, and reliant on a gun line. Ships like that would have good flux dissipation, good DP values, but poor max flux and slow speed. This would give them an edge at mid range but be vulnerable at close range and long range.

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Weftin

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2021, 05:54:44 AM »

I have some feedback if you're willing to consider it. I've played a lot of mods and vanilla and have a decent sense of what "vanilla balance" is. How you decide to balance is up to you, of course. Making a mod is a lot of work, and I appreciate the time you're willing to dedicate to it.

As I said on the main page, I am actively encouraging anyone and everyone that sees something off about the balance to let me know about it. I've released the mod as a 'public beta' hoping to tweak it for several months before calling it done, labelling it as 1.0, and starting work on my next one.

To me, these ships are (generally) long and thin with overlapping fields of fire. To me, they appear that they should be slow moving, decently durable, and reliant on a gun line. Ships like that would have good flux dissipation, good DP values, but poor max flux and slow speed. This would give them an edge at mid range but be vulnerable at close range and long range.

I am very glad you thought that, as this is exactly the focus I was after with these ships and I appreciate your suggestions.

I'll get to work on implementing them (all probably) as I expect the ships to change wildly before I slap a 1.0 label on it

Just modifying this post to say that I rushed out some balance changes that should address the issues you listed, thanks again for your suggestions, and I will be doing some similar tuning across the board soon
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 08:27:08 AM by Weftin »
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Stuffwriter

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2021, 11:19:39 AM »

A few more things to keep in mind:

Ship Tech
- Low tech ships have poor flux stats and speed, but strong armor, good DP, many weapon mounts, and long deployment times. Their ship systems are almost exclusively offensive with either burn drive straight ahead or improvements to firepower.

- High tech ships have strong shields, good flux stats, and are fast, but are extremely fragile, have a smaller number of weapon mounts, and are generally restricted to energy/missile weapons. They also have low deployment times. Their ship systems tend to be defensive with ship repositioning or improvements to shields.

- Midline ships have stats that fit right between low and high and are defined by their versatility in types of weapon mounts.

Weapons
- Weapon arcs make or break a ship design. Because of the need to focus fire in this game, weapon arcs that cannot all focus on the same point are a lot less useful. Consider the Onslaught battleship. It has 3 large mounts, but none of them can fire on the same target at the same time (unless that target is extremely large). This means that it has a tendency to spray out flux without accomplishing anything useful, so it's important to carefully manage what guns are firing. To compensate for this, the onslaught has a HUGE DP pool and a reduction in cost to large mounts.

- Give the player options in how to lay out a ship. Many of your current designs are so limited in weapon placement and DP that there is no flexibility or creativity in ship layouts. Something to consider.

Ship Systems
- Without recruiting help from veteran modders, you'll have a very difficult time creating your own ship systems. Restricted in this way, your ability to create really cool designs is limited.

- With the existing ship systems from the vanilla game, maneuvering thrusters is an obvious pick for cruisers and capitals for your ships. A few of them would probably shine with the ammo feeder or missile autoforge though.
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Weftin

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2021, 04:49:03 AM »

A few more things to keep in mind:

Don't worry I'm not completely inept, I've read through the modding guidelines and have been playing starsector for the past 4-ish years. I'll figure it out

PreConceptor

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2021, 11:10:43 AM »

fyi, SCY already has an Alecto-class frigate. Could be confusing.
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Weftin

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2021, 12:27:38 PM »

fyi, SCY already has an Alecto-class frigate. Could be confusing.

I'll rename it in the upcoming balance patch

Weftin

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2021, 08:03:40 AM »

New update, should further address flux and OP issues in this ship pack (and the alecto has been renamed to the Daimler)

T1203

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Re: [0.95a] Weftin's Ship Pack
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2021, 09:18:22 PM »

there is an extra "WFT_damiler_variant.variant" that prevents the game from loading, just a heads up
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