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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Holes in the Low tech lineup  (Read 2017 times)

Megas

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Re: Holes in the Low tech lineup
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2021, 07:33:32 AM »

Same here, I've destroyed their battlestation so many times it's boring. Usually there's a thing or two that I'd like to get but there's SOOOO MUCH unique stuff there that after the raid I always go "oh right yeah this also exists". Back when there was no delay on raids I think I brough stability down to -73 or something like that.
I raid for all blueprints just to force the historian to cough up Legion XIV blueprint and possible colony items I want.  (I want Dealmaker Holosuite and maybe the Biofactory, and if I cannot find one from loot, then historian is the only option left.)
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hydremajor

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Re: Holes in the Low tech lineup
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2021, 08:32:54 AM »

And then there's me that wants a Atlas Mk3 that's just got its cargo holds replaced by entire belts of small missiles

I DO mean belts, like 40 small missile mounts total to spam swarmers like an absolute champ...
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Locklave

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Re: Holes in the Low tech lineup
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2021, 11:33:56 AM »

I think it isn't to discourage playstyles, but to make tech themed playthroughs feel different, since you lack some roles and have to work around it.
It also seems pretty intentional to me, since the only faction that doesn't use multiple techs is Luddic Church.

I think reading deeply into it like that will have people concluding all kinds of madness that has no connection to actual intent. How about this, he's not done making ships yet. That could equally be the reason for the current case. He is still clearly making new ships.

The tech level playstyles are already distinct, not sure how you can argue the missing roles is making things feel different (in a good way). You can say all destroyers are just destroyer but we all know they fight completely different, even inside the same tech level. Low tech having crappy frigates for example is not a themed thing that makes the playthroughs feel different, it's a problem that limits Low tech playthroughs. You are saying less options is more options and/or that less options is creating a good gameplay thing. I disagree with that.
 
What factions choose to use is not an indicator of Alex's intent for the players.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 11:47:11 AM by Locklave »
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Thaago

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Re: Holes in the Low tech lineup
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2021, 11:50:35 AM »

Quote
... Low tech having crappy frigates for example is not a themed thing that makes the playthroughs feel different, it's a problem that limits Low tech playthroughs. You are saying less options is more options and/or that less options is creating a good gameplay thing.

A bit more about the philosophy of gameplay here, but sometimes limits are what differentiates interesting gameplay. Like you say with low tech their current frigates are bad - so when I play lowtech I use Condors with Thunders (or other interceptors before I get Thunders) and do a decent amount of micro with their commands to fill the gap. The limitation makes me need to play in a new way.

When I play high tech I use their amazing frigate and wolfpack, but have no carriers below astral size to put interceptors on. There are things I can do with Tempests that Thunders can't do, and vice versa, so my anti-small ship strategy and gameplay are entirely different (and anti-large ship too, but that comes from other limitations in high tech).

Otoh, too many limits can be just as bad as too few limits; they need to be challenges to guide and overcome, rather than frustrations/impossibilities, and the perception of that can change from player to player.
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Locklave

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Re: Holes in the Low tech lineup
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2021, 11:54:40 AM »

I know that limits create thematic elements. We are talking about the intent of Alex here which is being interpreted via current game design.

He's saying Alex created those specific limitations with those systems to create those thematic elements. I disagree and the fact that Alex is filling missing ship roles pokes holes in that thinking.

It's being implied that the glaring holes in tech levels are intentional.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 11:58:12 AM by Locklave »
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Thaago

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Re: Holes in the Low tech lineup
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2021, 12:22:11 PM »

Ah, my bad! I misread :)
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