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Author Topic: Legion XIV > STD Legion  (Read 2606 times)

Grievous69

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Re: Legion XIV > STD Legion
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2021, 02:22:51 PM »

I'm not sure if there's a single ship in the game where you would want to leave the fighter bays empty. Even just plain ol' Talons for 2 OP will do meaningful stuff in battle. OP costs for fighters compared to weapons are waaaay skewed towards fighters so it's always good to have something at least decent, even now when fighters are weaker this patch. But that's just my 2 cents.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Legion XIV > STD Legion
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2021, 02:34:08 PM »

Fighters like talons burn through crew. Definitely not free damage. Late game it's mostly irrelevant but it can matter a lot early on.
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Megas

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Re: Legion XIV > STD Legion
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2021, 02:40:39 PM »

Quote
I'm not sure if there's a single ship in the game where you would want to leave the fighter bays empty.
If there were no mining pods, I probably leave bays empty for Odyssey and Legion XIV built for missile spam because I need all the OP I can get.  Also, if I want to use fighters (other than pods), then Expanded Deck Crew becomes a must.  (Not enough OP for Deck Crew, ITU, and missile mods.)  Also, if I want AI to use such a ship, maybe no fighters means they do not set to Engage and deny themselves zero-flux speed.

But Mining Pods are mildly useful as meat shields, and I sometimes use them on Odyssey and Legion XIV when guns and/or missiles are the primary focus.  If I really want to use fighters on a capital, I use Astral or maybe standard Legion if I want to dabble with guns.  (If I use Odyssey, I want to pilot it like a Shrike and shoot things up with double plasma, and if I use Legion XIV, I want to goof around with Hammer Barrage or Cyclone Reaper because no other playership aside from Champion can use those dumb-fires effectively.  If I want Locusts or MIRVs, I use Conquest instead of Legion XIV.)
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Jo Jo

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Re: Legion XIV > STD Legion
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2021, 03:02:42 PM »

Thanks folks! That helps me understand a bit better. I'll play around with the fittings on the Legion XIV and see what I can get. I found if I fit bombers that it could take an Onslaught in the fittings screen one on one, then it absolutely tanked when I took it to a fleet fight, leaving me to give up on it in the current patch. Then I found this thread and thought I might take a second look at it as a gunship / missile platform since others had success that way.

Edit: BTW, I had no idea mining pods were a zero OP option. :) Nice to know.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 03:06:44 PM by Jo Jo »
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Thaago

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Re: Legion XIV > STD Legion
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2021, 03:10:57 PM »

Xyphos are excellent for Legions that are acting as gunships but they are expensive, so there usually needs to be some other compromise to mount them (going 'missile cheap' with dual hammers on an XIV is one possibility, though a bit risky in an AI build). Cheap interceptors like Talons and Wasps will contribute even in endgame fights (crew losses don't matter, as rough as that is to say). Thunders are always good because thunders are good. There is no need for expanded deck crew for any of those to work well - the total rebuild time for wings is low. I would say bombers are a poor choice for the Legion because they are both very OP expensive and because they are very rough on replacement rate so DO want expanded deck crew, which Legion is hard pressed to afford.

In terms of acting as a missile+gun ship, Conquests are just better. Cheaper, faster, better guns and flux, and has more missile mounts if going all in with expanded racks and ECCM (AI can't use dumbfires up front but the player can). Using Legions well requires getting value out of the fighters which is harder this patch as fighters took a hit, making them a bit underpowered at the moment.
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Jo Jo

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Re: Legion XIV > STD Legion
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2021, 03:42:09 PM »

Xyphos are excellent for Legions that are acting as gunships but they are expensive, so there usually needs to be some other compromise to mount them (going 'missile cheap' with dual hammers on an XIV is one possibility, though a bit risky in an AI build). Cheap interceptors like Talons and Wasps will contribute even in endgame fights (crew losses don't matter, as rough as that is to say). Thunders are always good because thunders are good. There is no need for expanded deck crew for any of those to work well - the total rebuild time for wings is low. I would say bombers are a poor choice for the Legion because they are both very OP expensive and because they are very rough on replacement rate so DO want expanded deck crew, which Legion is hard pressed to afford.

In terms of acting as a missile+gun ship, Conquests are just better. Cheaper, faster, better guns and flux, and has more missile mounts if going all in with expanded racks and ECCM (AI can't use dumbfires up front but the player can). Using Legions well requires getting value out of the fighters which is harder this patch as fighters took a hit, making them a bit underpowered at the moment.

Thanks for the info. I'm still in the experimental phase, though I just had a fight I couldn't believe. I did build in harden shields and reinforced bulkheads so I gave my Legion XIV an advantage the AI Paragon didn't have, though the Paragon is 60 DP and my Legion XIV is 40. I used the fitting screen's one on one and went against a Paragon which the modified Legion XIV beat while still maintaining what appears to be 60% hull and no frontal armor. What happens in a fleet fight is anyone's guess, but this was promising to me. 

You hit the nail on the head when it comes to the bombers in the current patch, based on my experiences. They are simply eaten up by nearby ship point defense. Thanks for reaffirming. I can also see where in the players hands this would be a good platform for the Dual Hammers. Gosh wouldn't that be something!

Here's the build that beat the Paragon under complete AI control:

4x mining pods at 0 OP
2x Hurricane MIRV Launchers
5x Hypervelocity Drivers
8x Vulcan
Built in ->Hardened Shields and Reinforced Bulkheads
added ->Integrated Targeting Unit and Stabilized Shields
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Zonk

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Re: Legion XIV > STD Legion
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2021, 06:48:00 PM »

I used to think that the normal Legion was trash compared to having two large missile slots on the Legion XIV. But I have found I much prefer the normal Legion given how easy they are to find! In my current Nex playthrough I destroyed a Luddic Church vengeance fleet and was able to salvage a Legion with 3 s-mods. I don't even have the skill for that! It has Expanded Missile Racks, Reinforced Bulkheads, and Heavy Armor for free, thank you Nex!

The fact that you can put 5 Annihilator pods on the Legion is amazing. Paired with expanded missile racks and officer missile skills, you have 360 shots in each missile pod. The large ballistic turrets let you put in Gauss Cannons, one of my favorite weapons in the game with very long range, high projectile speed, and very high per-shot damage effective against both heavy armor and shield.

The Legion doesn't have great flux stats but maxed vents + flux distributor gives just enough flux to power 2 Gauss Cannons, and the 5 Annihilator pods are flux-free. Who needs to power a shield if you have 2000+ armor and stay at 1500+ distance? This setup annihilates stations below Star Fortress size, and can fully occupy the point defense of one entire side of a Star Fortress as part of a fleet of capitals. The Legion is also really hard to kill--heavy armor, reinforced bulkheads, and vulcans in all the small projectile slots make it a tough bird.

I think all the low-tech capital ships are hamstrung by bad flux and shield stats in the end. The best use I have found for my Legions or Onslaughts is baiting the fire of scary targets while my two Paragons actually do all the work. Legions are also very half-baked when it comes to being carriers. Unlike an Astral, you will not be deleting cruisers or larger with waves of teleporting bombers. If you spend the OP on good fighters, expanded deck crew, recovery shuttles, etc., you will gimp the rest of your Legion fit. I prefer Sparks personally, because 4 Spark squadrons are cheap on DP but fairly effective when massed against harassing frigates and destroyers. Xyphos would be interesting to go with a Battle Legion too but you might have to forgo hull mods or flux stats to accommodate them.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Legion XIV > STD Legion
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2021, 06:55:41 PM »

On the odd occasion I am outfitting a standard Legion, I have found doing a Dominator loadout + fighters tends to be solid.
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Megas

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Re: Legion XIV > STD Legion
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2021, 05:05:57 AM »

If I use standard Legion, I use good fighters because otherwise, what is the point?  Just get Onslaught instead.  With standard Legion, I use two big guns, few medium guns, and everything else into fighters and Expanded Deck Crew, plus ITU.  It has barely enough OP for a spartan loadout of guns and fighters.

"Dominator loadout + fighters" it is.
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