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Author Topic: 0-flux speed boost question about realism  (Read 1985 times)

SCC

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Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2021, 11:33:03 AM »

I'm assuming the fleets would have to be using hyperspace even while in-system to move that fast between the planets
That would make transverse jump completely boring, regular thing, instead of something impossible without bleeding edge technology that it is referred to in story, wouldn't it?

intrinsic_parity

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Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2021, 11:37:10 AM »

It's strange (from a realism perspective) that every ship receives the same flat bonus, but it would be just as strange if every ship received the same percentage bonus. The strange part is the standardization across all ships.

If you want some BS lore, just image that there is some domain-era safety system that requires the ship to reserve a portion of reactor power when weapons and shields are active, and the safety system is designed so that the size of the energy buffer corresponds to a flat bonus i.e. bigger ships have to reserve more energy for whatever reason, perhaps to ensure they can decelerate in time or something. Since no one understands how the systems work anymore, they keep using the same standards. Then safety overrides disables the system. Boom, lore consistency.

As someone with two degrees in aerospace engineering, I can assure you that it is not worth spending your time trying to rationalize the game mechanics with any sort of realism.
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CorsairZero

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Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2021, 11:47:59 AM »

I'm assuming the fleets would have to be using hyperspace even while in-system to move that fast between the planets
That would make transverse jump completely boring, regular thing, instead of something impossible without bleeding edge technology that it is referred to in story, wouldn't it?

Fair point. I think I'm going to just throw my hands up and agree that SS is some goofy BS, and shouldn't be looked at under a "realism"/"logic" microscope.
SS is gameplay-centric like Doom 2016 or Horizon Zero Dawn. Don't think too hard about the health pack orbs or robot dinosaurs.
The rules are made up, and the points don't matter.
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CorsairZero

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Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2021, 11:52:35 AM »

I'm giving up on this one.
Too many mental gymnastics on my part / It is actually a fool's errand.
SS has a lot of goofy BS, and shouldn't be looked at this critically.
Thanks for the feedback/replies.
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Flying Dice

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Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2021, 06:15:04 PM »

something that was CLEARLY NOT thought of when the game was being made
What are you even talking about? Flux was a core mechanic even in the first public release, and the 0-flux boost was part of that system from the beginning. One of the early balance patches that got a fair amount of talk was when Alex removed coasting (which was a submechanic where, if you got up to speed with the 0-flux boost, you could start firing weapons and build flux without losing the boost as long as you didn't change your vector -- it was removed because the AI couldn't do it effectively).

On a related note, I vaguely recall some early lore (like, 2013-2014 era) about the "drive anchor" as a core element of the physics/propulsion of the setting which loosely explained why ships handle the way they do (in particular, why drives that visually resemble big fusion torches behave more like reactionless drives).


In terms of mechanical heritage, flux has more to do with the energy mechanics in a lot of traditional space shooter sim/RPGs (think the power triangle in Elite: Dangerous for a modern example) than with BTech's heat meter. Heat existed exclusively as a balancing mechanic to stop wargamers from being wargamers and just running massive alpha strike builds. It had very little nuance or skill involvement beyond developing an understanding of how close to the line you could reliably ride. (Wargamers being wargamers, cheese found a way regardless with things like the MGboat Hunchback.)
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Brainwright

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Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2021, 08:44:48 PM »

The flux mechanic makes sense, as you can't just "send power," to systems and expect them not to blow up.  You need to match the power to the load drawn by the systems, so a network of capacitors would be needed, and these capacitors would take up charge and dispense it slowly.  The more connections between capacitors, the faster they can balance the load.

So the 0 flux boost is no power diverted to capacitors, all into the drive field.

What it does for the game, though, is a bit odd.  It's not an escape mechanic, since every ship has it.  It tends to prevent escape as defenders need to defend themselves and attackers are where they want to be when they need to spend flux.

By the way, the function of the speed system in SS is such that it is based on acceleration, not top speed.

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Flying Dice

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Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2021, 07:24:15 AM »

What it does for the game, though, is a bit odd.  It's not an escape mechanic, since every ship has it.  It tends to prevent escape as defenders need to defend themselves and attackers are where they want to be when they need to spend flux.

The main role it has these days is to prevent prolonged kiting, same as deployment time limits. This is for both the player and AI, and is bound up with the history of issues like retreat cheese. "Either you have enough materiel to win a fight or you don't," basically.
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SCC

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Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2021, 07:59:37 AM »

That's wrong. The actual reason for 0 flux bonus is to speed up travel from places where combat has ended to places where combat is ongoing.

Flying Dice

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Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2021, 11:23:42 AM »

That's wrong. The actual reason for 0 flux bonus is to speed up travel from places where combat has ended to places where combat is ongoing.
Which falls under "preventing kiting". Otherwise you could use frigates to draw enemy capitals off into a corner away from the main battle line. The fact that an anti-cheese system also benefits QoL by hastening post-battle cleanup doesn't mean it's not an anti-cheese system. It certainly isn't necessary in the latter role with the modern retreat system.

Why do you think it reactivates so quickly? If it's just a way to get ships around the tactical map faster, it wouldn't pop back on so quickly. It does so because the intent is that a fast skirmisher shouldn't be able to apply a prolonged speed debuff just by grazing a battleship with a single long-range shot -- instead, the boost kicks back on almost as soon as the flux from the hit dissipates.

On the whole it's a more complete answer to acknowledge that the movement mechanics, flux mechanics, AI behavior, and retreat/surrender mechanics are a big furball of interconnected systems and balance decisions strung out over the better part of a decade, but the root cause behind why a lot of their elements are as they are is to curtail cheesy tactical behavior.
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Alliostra

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Re: 0-flux speed boost question about realism
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2021, 12:13:57 AM »

My headcanon regarding the 0-flux boost is that built-up flux interferes with whatever system keeps the ship from accelerating on and on, and moving too fast with built-up flux heavily stresses the deceleration system which puts a heavy strain on rest of the ship' systems. This is the main reason for why SO ships have worse PPT and faster CR degradation.

The reason for why it's a flat bonus might be that the 0-flux boost was never an intended by the domain, but instead it's the result of a small modification to the ship's computers that has become a standard in the sector. Due to anti-tampering mechanisms baked into the systems of every ship, there is only a single known bypass, and it just so happens to be that it increases the maximum allowed speed by a flat value regardless of hull type.
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