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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

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Author Topic: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II  (Read 1669 times)

Sandor057

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2021, 12:31:43 AM »

Indeed, Mairaath remembers.

Anyway, I admit it is a crazy idea. It would, of course, be useless to restore a ship used for suicide runs, so I don't see how that cost investment would happen (at all, I don't spend that much on regular capitals either). Nevertheless while I see the value in making it a better ship, its purpose (I think) is not to be viable, but to provide an alternative as nothing viable is readily available to Pathers. It would (and I guess it should) struggle against similar opponents.

Perhaps giving it two extra fighter bays but also some fighter debuff could pimp it up a bit? Like converted hangars, but with less extra cost for fighters.

As for the mechanics... well, this is a flavour ship. Mechanics-wise there are a lot of better options, which require less tinkering (and investment) to make them viable.
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hydremajor

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2021, 01:25:15 AM »

Indeed, Mairaath remembers.

Anyway, I admit it is a crazy idea. It would, of course, be useless to restore a ship used for suicide runs, so I don't see how that cost investment would happen (at all, I don't spend that much on regular capitals either). Nevertheless while I see the value in making it a better ship, its purpose (I think) is not to be viable, but to provide an alternative as nothing viable is readily available to Pathers. It would (and I guess it should) struggle against similar opponents.

Perhaps giving it two extra fighter bays but also some fighter debuff could pimp it up a bit? Like converted hangars, but with less extra cost for fighters.

As for the mechanics... well, this is a flavour ship. Mechanics-wise there are a lot of better options, which require less tinkering (and investment) to make them viable.

Bruh thats a flat nerf
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JAL28

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2021, 02:43:14 AM »

The only reliable means of obtaining a Prometheus is to be on friendly terms with the Luddic Path and have a commission with them so you can buy one from a Pather military world. But wait, it gets even better! Neither of the Luddic Path's two starting planets, Chalcedon and Epiphany, are military worlds. So if you want to buy one you'll have to conquer a military world for them. I'm currently attempting a Pather playthrough ("Osama bin Ludden" needs your prayers!), so I'm going to be using them to go along with the faction theme.

If I remember correctly, Pather bases are all military bases, like how all Pirate bases are military bases. So you could just go to one of these bases to buy a Prometheus Mk 2.
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IonDragonX

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2021, 03:00:13 PM »

Maybe the abilty to throw some kind of super torpedo filled with fuel(since its antimatter) like when you bomb planets
There's a mod out there somewhere which does this. It might be out of date, tho.

Kanjejou

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2021, 05:58:28 PM »

The problem  of the Prometeus MK2 is that it carry the same firepower as an Atlas  with the same weaknesses(slow and civilian hull) but for more DP...

Why bring 2 large 2 medium and a large missile with only two extra fighter bay with as much OP(220) for 32DP instead of 2Large 2 medium and 2 large missle + AAF that will double your dps for a few seconds every 20seconds and 24  DP

I think the Prometheus MK2 should be at the same DP price as the Atlas MK2 almost same loadout both being retrofitted civi ships used by pirate and ludic path...they cannot rely on fuel guzzler and costly to maintain ships anyway
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Grievous69

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2021, 12:45:54 AM »

Ok so I played with the ship a lot more in a custom mission, good thing being I don't care about burn speed here, but it made me even more sad. There's a ton of fun loadouts you can come up with but very few actually end up working. OP is so damn tight you only fit ITU, some efficient weapons, max vents, pair of Broadswords and you can maybe get 10 capacitors. And this is going for cheaper weapons / fighters, I imagine if you wanted to outfit every single slot you'd have no OP for caps or even fighters.

It truly needs at least another 40 OP or so, nothing built-in or such buffs, it just needs more space to actually do something with it. And I'd hate to see it brought down to 24 DP, we already have tons of ships in 25 DP range.
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ubuntufreakdragon

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2021, 04:14:13 AM »

They should get a build in Militarization, because that's what they are.
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Kanjejou

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2021, 05:51:00 AM »

maybe recieve an extra universal medium slot and 20 OP if you pay 8extra DP you shoudl gain something worthy for it
Its between an Atlas and legion/onslaught shoudl be between them in OP and firepower...
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Kloranthy

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2021, 11:27:04 AM »

I think just giving extra OP to carriers is a bit risky.
the OP might be intended for filling empty weapon mounts or solving flux issues but there is nothing to prevent it from being spent on fancy bombers instead.
not the end of the world if that happens but still would make balancing difficult.
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Grievous69

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2021, 11:34:30 AM »

I think just giving extra OP to carriers is a bit risky.
the OP might be intended for filling empty weapon mounts or solving flux issues but there is nothing to prevent it from being spent on fancy bombers instead.
not the end of the world if that happens but still would make balancing difficult.
Bro it's a 32 DP ship with only 2 fighters bays and a system that does nothing for them. That's like the last concern.
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Brainwright

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2021, 08:36:53 PM »

They should get a build in Militarization, because that's what they are.

Eh, I like the choice between militarization and that cargo skill.  It's nice.
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Ruddygreat

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2021, 04:20:38 AM »

time to barge into this thread with my bad ideas having only half read the op

the prome mk2 isn't awful, it's weapon mounts are actually almost shockingly good, though the DP cost is ridiculously high (seriously if you're not doing an rp run just use a conquest)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/304690022299336705/885906201588686868/screenshot513.png

this is a build I made mostly as a shitpost but it works shockingly well with the right officer (cautious, range spec, gunnery implants, helmsmanship), and even in unofficered ai hands it can duel a sim onslaught and win
then, if you want to follow the dark arts and take advantage of the package build-in exploit (build in a package, remove militarised subsystems, it still gets buffed by aux support but doesn't count towards the limit) you can get this absolue monstrosity of a ship, with I think (close to, i know i left out armoured mounts) the most armour possible in the game

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/304690022299336705/885905006887305216/screenshot512.png

if alex was to buff it - swapping the larges for universals is an awful idea, there's a good reason very few ships (even in mods) can field that many large missiles
I'd definitely recommend a dp decrease, probably down to 28 or so
system wise burn drive is fine and is very thematic, hopefully next update the ai will be able to use it better
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Alliostra

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2021, 03:48:28 AM »

I think a simple buff through less DP cost, better flux stats, more armor or especially more OP would suffice to make the Prometheus more competitive.

However, one thing I'd like to see buffed is it's burn drive. In addition to it being cancelable for finer control, It should last longer and grant extra bonus speed (This could be explained by toggling SO on for the duration of the burn, which would explain it thematically and look very cool. Hell, what if it actually got ALL the SO effects while it's burn drive is active?).

This would not only make ramming maneuvers more easy to pull off, but it would also make the Prometheus function more like the rest of the LP ships which try to get into your face as fast as possible to overwhelm you with high firepower. The Prometheus currently cannot really do this to anything but the slowest capitals, and because the rest of a LP fleets flies (and breaks) so extremely fast, the battle is likely to be decided before the comparatively slow Prometheus even encounters it's first enemy ship.

I'd also like to see a slight bit of maneuverability to be left during regular burn drives, too, but with cancelable burns this might prove too powerful in the end.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2021, 09:42:08 AM »

Not every ship needs to be good. Some ships are designed to be enemies for the player. LP and pirate ships are not supposed to be good.
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Kanjejou

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Re: Fixing the Prometheus Mk.II
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2021, 02:59:49 PM »

Then   Atlas mk2 need a nerf if pirate ship need to be bad because its hard to get as much fireppower at such a cheap price
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