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[Kos135]

The Prometheus Mk.II is the worst capital ship in the game. This isn't very surprising since it's a converted civilian ship, and exclusive to the Luddic Path who are known for their crappy low tech fleets riddled with d-mods. If you're not familiar with this ship I don't blame you. It's extremely hard to find, I vaguely recall seeing it once or twice in a Pather fleet, and I forget why there was a Pather fleet that large in the first place.

The only reliable means of obtaining a Prometheus is to be on friendly terms with the Luddic Path and have a commission with them so you can buy one from a Pather military world. But wait, it gets even better! Neither of the Luddic Path's two starting planets, Chalcedon and Epiphany, are military worlds. So if you want to buy one you'll have to conquer a military world for them. I'm currently attempting a Pather playthrough ("Osama bin Ludden" needs your prayers!), so I'm going to be using them to go along with the faction theme.

In this thread I will give an overview of the Prometheus Mk.II's stats, and propose what I feel are reasonable buffs that make it a fun and viable choice, while still keeping it in line with its theme of a fuel tanker that's been haphazardly converted into a battleship by a bunch of desperado space terrorists.

First let's talk about the statline of the Prometheus.
Speed: Burn speed 6, top speed 50.
Defenses: 11,000 hull integrity and 1,300 armor, and a 180 degree shield with 225 flux upkeep and 1.2 flux per shield damage.
Weapons: 1x large missile turret, 2x large hybrid turrets (ballistic and energy), 2x medium ballistic turrets, 8x small ballistics turrets, and 2x fighter bays.
System/Hullmods: Burn Drive, and Civilian-grade hull.
Logistics: 32 deployment points, 20% CR per deployment, 720 peak performance.

The only clear advantage the Prometheus has over other capital ships is its top speed of 50. The Prometheus is quite fast in combat especially with its Burn Drive. But as many others have pointed out the Burn Drive cannot be cancelled mid-burn, both the player and the AI can easily misuse it and wind up surrounded. On the map, its pathetic burn speed of 6 requires you to take the Augmented Drive Field and Militarized Subsystems hullmods and take the Navigation skill in order to reach 20/20 burn speed.

The Prometheus only manages to beat the Atlas Mk.II in terms of defenses. Due to its low flux stats and crappy shield it should be armor-modded.

The weapons are OK. Two fighter bays is always nice to have. The forward-facing large missile hardpoint is clearly meant for the thematic Hammer Barrage. The two large hybrid turrets (ballistic and energy) are in the middle of the ship, limiting their range a bit, and since you only have 220 ordnance points you'll have trouble balancing your build to allow for pricier weapons. It also has two diagonal-facing medium ballistics, which can intersect across the front of the ship. It has 5 small ballistics on the left side and 3 on the right, all of them facing outward, clearly meant for PD.

Its deployment cost of 32 is clearly unjustified. The Prometheus is inferior even to the Atlas Mk.II which, in spite of its pathetic stats, can still be useful as a cheap gunboat due to its Accelerated Ammo Feeder system, and the Atlas Mk.II only costs 24 deployment points. The CR per deployment of 20% is slightly high compared to other capitals, and the peak performance of 720 is average.

I've done some simulations and fought a few real battles with the Prometheus. Here's the build I've come up with:
Flux: 31 capacitors, 60 vents
Hullmods: Augmented Drive Field (built-in), Heavy Armor (built-in), Militarized Subsystems (built-in), and Integrated Targeting Unit.
Weapons: 1x Locust SRM Launcher, 2x Mark IX Autocannon, 2x Heavy Autocannon, 2x Light Dual Machine Gun, and 2x Piranha Bomber.

The idea is to bring down shields with my ballistic turrets, provide some PD, bomber cover and finishing damage with the locust, and deal most of my damage with the Piranhas. It's not horrible but you could easily do better with ships of a similar or lesser deployment point cost. Against frontline capitals like the Onslaught and the Paragon it melts like butter, but that's hardly surprising since the Prometheus is a hybrid ship and not a dedicated brawler.

Here are my recommendations for buffing for the Prometheus, while staying true to its origin as a converted fuel tanker:

1) Change the 2x large hybrids into large universals, so you can turn the Prometheus into a dedicated missile boat. You can't make it a passable frontline brawler without transforming it into a completely different ship, so you might as well make it a missile boat. Plus having 3x locusts on a single ship would be fun.

2) Change the ship's system from Burn Drive to something that won't get it killed within the first minute of a fight. I'm thinking either Fast Missile Racks or Flare Launcher.
However, a recent dev diary from Alex provides another potential option in the future: https://fractalsoftworks.com/2021/05/28/a-tale-of-two-tech-levels/

Introducing: Termination Sequence. When activated, it supercharges one of the drones and sends it off after the selected target, like a missile. It deals massive energy and EMP damage – and since the drone itself is the missile, it’s quite tough compared to most other missiles. Uniquely among missiles, it can also shoot at the target (or anything else it pleases) while on approach.

Alex proposed this new ship system for the Tempest. It sounds like a high tech system since it causes the Tempest to "supercharge" one of its drones and deal EMP damage, so in order to keep with the theme of the Prometheus, it would require a low tech equivalent. Something that deals high explosive damage instead of energy and EMP damage, causing the fighters to suicide into an enemy ship without the high tech energy mumbo-jumbo. Flavor-wise, this would be no problem for a fanatical Pather pilot who is eager to die for the cause. We could call it "Kamikaze" or "Suicide Run", something like that. It would make cheap interceptors like the Talon Interceptor Wing quite useful and add more flavor to the Luddic Path.
Although it's not really a ship system, more of a tactical choice by the fighter pilots, but whatever.

3) Give the Prometheus a free hullmod to make up for its low ordnance points. Before you think "Safety Overrides!" because the other Pather ships have it built-in, no, that's not available for capital ships. I recommend Heavy Armor. The flavor text for the Prometheus Mk.II mentions that it has been fitted with "huge armour plates" so it makes sense, and Heavy Armor is an expensive hullmod that you'll probably want to take anyway. And besides, the armor difference between the regular Prometheus (1200 armor) and the Mk.II (1300 armor) is only 100. It's not much of an upgrade. Counting the free hullmod, the total ordnance points of the Prometheus Mk.II will increase from 220 to a much more workable 260.

That's all I've got to say. I'll continue with my Pather playthrough and continue experimenting with the Prometheus Mk.II. What do you guys think?

[Grievous69]

Dunno why you're explaining how Burn drive is not good currently for Prometheus when it's already confirmed in the very same blog post you linked that it's gonna get changed so you can cancel it when you want. And Atlas MkII is 24 DP, not 22.

But honestly I'm never gonna touch either of these ships just because of burn 6. That makes them completely useless for my fleet, if I somehow get them earlier in the game, they're too slow, and for late game they're too weak. Basically just an ADF story point requirement which is silly since I'm ditching both ships as soon as I get a normal capital. Which is a shame because I think Prometheus MkII has a very interesting mount setup, unlike any other ship (off the top of my head I can't recall any ship having a large hybrid slot, let alone 2 facing in same direction). Personally I wouldn't touch weapon mounts or fighters bays, probably just increase OP but that's a boring change. Burn drive also seems very fitting for it so I'm not sure if anything else would be a better alternative.

Btw I know the converted capitals have intentionally bad burn speed, they're an early game easy enemy faction after all, but I still think they should have 7 burn. One are pirates and the other are religious extremists, doesn't make sense that they're not able to catch up to anyone else. Their fleet is supposed to be composed of rusty wonky ships that obviously aren't as good as military line ships, but they have no right to be slow as snails.

[Kos135]

Dunno why you're explaining how Burn drive is not good currently for Prometheus when it's already confirmed in the very same blog post you linked that it's gonna get changed so you can cancel it when you want.

Even with that change Burn Drive isn't as useful for the Prometheus as it is for a slow ship like the Onslaught. The Prometheus already has 50 top speed, which is very fast for a capital ship, and it's not a brawler that you want going toe-to-toe with an Onslaught or a Paragon.

And Atlas MkII is 24 DP, not 22.

I double-checked and you're right. Still much more reasonable than the Prometheus.

But honestly I'm never gonna touch either of these ships just because of burn 6.

If I was going for an optimal fleet I wouldn't either. But the Prometheus Mk.II should have something to make it attractive.

[Daynen]

I'm a diehard fan of the Atlas mk II and I've used it to tremendous effect; in the right hands it's worth twice it's cost in deployment points.  The prometheus II, however...yeah.  I agree.  It's pretty jank, even for tech-averse terrorists.  I'm surprised that it doesn't have some kind of built-in flamethrower "to turn the tools of Moloch against his own servants" or somesuch.

[Kanjejou]

Maybe the abilty to throw some kind of super torpedo filled with fuel(since its antimatter) like when you bomb planets

[Thaago]

An upgraded and even boomier version of the new tempest system that turns the terminator drones into missiles would be on brand. Give the drones ballistics instead of energy, etc.

[Kos135]

Expanding upon the kamikaze fighter idea, maybe the Prometheus Mk.II could get its own unique, built-in fighters like the Tempest has? The Luddic Path thinks all AI technology is demonic so they'd have to be manned craft, not drones. It would be a cheap, fast interceptor-type craft loaded up with explosives so it causes a huge explosion if it connects with the target. Basically a Talon Interceptor with all of the free space packed with bombs.

[ubuntufreakdragon]

I've done some simulations and fought a few real battles with the Prometheus. Here's the build I've come up with:
Flux: 31 capacitors, 60 vents
Hullmods: Augmented Drive Field (built-in), Heavy Armor (built-in), Militarized Subsystems (built-in), and Integrated Targeting Unit.
Weapons: 1x Locust SRM Launcher, 2x Mark IX Autocannon, 2x Heavy Autocannon, 2x Light Dual Machine Gun, and 2x Piranha Bomber.

This loadout looks quite crappy, you rely on 2 bombay wings for HE dmg, you know they are not reliable.
A well armoured shield flickering cruiser should bring this down without receiving much dmg.
Switch at least 1 Large turret to HE.
If you max flux dispation without skills you have (600+450)*1.1 = 1155 or with flux distributors 1155 + 165 = 1320
The best option from my point of view would be a High Intensity Laser though quite flux intesive to fire it has best dps and range, and gets 500 hitstrength aigainst armor, and it cost only 2op more than a mark IX.
changing the Heavy Autocannons to Heavy Needlers for 6 op sound good, too.
so we are ate 225 + 348 + 500 + 2*200 = 1473 flux cost/s, thats ok.
I would switch to wasps to get a cheap effective PD and throw away Piranhas and Light Dual Machine Gun having 20 op gained
23 capacitors, 60 vents + flux distributors

[Ramiel]

Honestly, I would have preferred if Prometheus II was a real suicidal ship. Lower the cost of deployment to 28, replace hangars with more large weapon mounts, have inbuilt mod that lowers range (to 400?) but raises fire rate, lower armor and health to increase speed to cruiser levels at least, and a hullmod that let's your ship detonate upon death, dealing heavy damage.
Now, this ship would have let you fight for Ludds glory!

[Kos135]

This loadout looks quite crappy

It's bound to be crappy regardless of what I do lol. I'm doing a challenge run right now and limiting myself to low tech only, otherwise yeah I'd be using some kind of high tech fighter craft. The bombers do a good enough job dealing damage, and I went full anti-shield with my turrets so I can apply as much pressure as possible. I recently switched from 2x heavy autocannons to 2x hypervelocity drivers to add some EMP damage and extra range, it was worth taking a few points out of flux capacitors. I might remove the PD machine guns for some extra flux.

[Sandor057]

Alex proposed this new ship system for the Tempest. It sounds like a high tech system since it causes the Tempest to "supercharge" one of its drones and deal EMP damage, so in order to keep with the theme of the Prometheus, it would require a low tech equivalent. Something that deals high explosive damage instead of energy and EMP damage, causing the fighters to suicide into an enemy ship without the high tech energy mumbo-jumbo.

This could prove interesting. There could be built-in suicide-bomber fighter wings, which, if ordered to attack, would fly into your target. Would fit the Lunatic... I mean Luddic team quite well.

Or, alternative idea: a ship system called Self-Destruction Sequence. Can only be activated when hull strength is below, say 40%. Effect is the following: you get 20 seconds. In those 20 seconds the ship would get a temporary Safety Override-like boost. If you are destroyed during this time, standard capital explosion. If the 20 second timer ends, HUGE explosion. I admit, it would be a bit crazy, however would be scary to see capitals suiciding into your ship.

[Kos135]

Or, alternative idea: a ship system called Self-Destruction Sequence. Can only be activated when hull strength is below, say 40%. Effect is the following: you get 20 seconds. In those 20 seconds the ship would get a temporary Safety Override-like boost. If you are destroyed during this time, standard capital explosion. If the 20 second timer ends, HUGE explosion. I admit, it would be a bit crazy, however would be scary to see capitals suiciding into your ship.

I don't agree with the idea of turning a capital ship into a disposable suicide ship. Maybe a system like that would make sense for a frigate, but in terms of both mechanics and lore, I don't think it works.

Mechanics-wise, a capital ship is a huge investment. In my experience the Prometheus Mk.II costs about 750-800k to get up and running, not counting weapons, hullmods and fighters. It's about 200k to buy it and 550-600k to repair all of the d-mods. Using a ship like that as a one-time explosive just isn't economical.

Lore-wise, the Prometheus Mk.II is the biggest and best the Luddic Path has. This is their flagship. Just because they're willing to embark on suicide attacks against the enemy doesn't mean they're idiots. If they were so reckless they would throw away an entire capital ship with hundreds of crew members for a one-time explosive attack, as a matter of regular battle tactics, then the Luddic Path wouldn't even exist as a major faction.
I could see the Pathers using a Dram, a frigate-sized fuel tanker with a maximum crew of 10 and skeleton crew of 5, as a suicide bomber. But not something that requires as large of an investment as the Prometheus Mk.II.

[Kloranthy]

seconding what kos135 said; a suicide bomber flagship for anything short of destroying stations is wasteful and unlikely.

I like the idea of built in suicide bomber fighters but, if Alex wanted to keep termination sequence unique to the tempest, some built in hammer bombers could work as well.
might want more than 2 due to their small wing size and slow replacement time.

I think that being a carrier is a key part of the prom2 and replacing the hangars with large mounts would lose its identity.
large ballistic would make it like the atlas2 but without the ammo feed that makes the atlas2 work.
large missile would make it like the col2 but bigger and slower.

I like that the pirates have the col3 as a carrier cruiser and the atlas2 as an over-gunned capital ship while the luddic path have the col2 as an over-gunned (well missiles but yeah) cruiser and the prom2 as a carrier capital ship.
the factions have distinct fleet identities despite both factions using jank converted civilian ships.

maybe the prom2 could have the ground support package like the col3 as sort of a "carriers used for raids" theme?

[hydremajor]

Speaking of the Promy2, do wonder why the Ludds didn't make a fuel set of ships like that, converting fuel freighters into warships

Though technically the knowledge to even make Prometheus MK2s would make them heretics to their own religion/cult

Far as I'm concerned I see the promy2 as a dirt cheap early capital option that you might not even need to fight in order to aquire early on with firepower comparable to a conquest except its got burn drive, is an assault ship instead of a lineship and has a small complement of strike crafts to bolster its PD moreso than anything else

If the biggest criticism you you can throw at it is "muh DP" by comparing it directly to the Atlas2, consider you could load the promy2 with kinetics and replace all its wings with bombers, in a 1 on 1 scenario that'd be hard to fight, in a crowd it would struggle, so letting us throw out 4 of thoses onto the field first thing in a fight would mean you get cruisers getting outgunned to the extreme

once cruisers are gone, destroyers and frigates can't really hope to do much better against something with large mounts and bombers

from there thoses can swarm the "better" capitals and drag 'em down through sheer numbers

A tactic I feel the Dev is trying to curb as much as possible...

[JAL28]

Or, alternative idea: a ship system called Self-Destruction Sequence. Can only be activated when hull strength is below, say 40%. Effect is the following: you get 20 seconds. In those 20 seconds the ship would get a temporary Safety Override-like boost. If you are destroyed during this time, standard capital explosion. If the 20 second timer ends, HUGE explosion. I admit, it would be a bit crazy, however would be scary to see capitals suiciding into your ship.

I don't agree with the idea of turning a capital ship into a disposable suicide ship. Maybe a system like that would make sense for a frigate, but in terms of both mechanics and lore, I don't think it works.

The Path, ramming a Prometheus into Maairath's Astropoli:

Honestly, it seems quite feasible for the Pathers to do that. Especially considering what they did at Maairath. It might not be feasible for mechanics wise, but then again, didn't Luddic Enhancement add suicide bomber ships to LP? And for lore, uh, look at Maairath again