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[Kanjejou]

I mean compared to tachion lance yeah you produce hard flux but multiple tachion lance +sabots are efficient and can burst super hard... but multiple Pulse laser seem super bad because of the overall flux cost of the weapon...and dotn combo well with anything else...

[Embolism]

Why are you comparing a common small weapon to a premium large weapon...?

IR pulse needs more range. Since small ballistics are getting a baseline range boost, I think IR pulse should go to 600 range. Still won't be that great because it's atrocious against any kind of armour but at least it would be more useable.

[Thaago]

I think they are ok: with the change to its efficiency (to ., IR Pulses are reasonable anti-shield/fighter/frigate weapons. For anti-armor small energy already has an excellent option: am blasters. OP expensive, and they require being put into a linked group with other offense guns and/or PD so that the AI will use them properly (IE fire them every chance they get), but good.

Re:range - I think its ok because the ships that use ir pulses are all higher speed with systems to either close the distance or do hit and run.

[Kanjejou]

My problem is more that a "burst" weapons the lances medium and large are way more flux efficient than the same size "pulse laser"...

which mean dps is weaker than burst both in ease of use and in over all flux consumption...

pulse use 300flux/sec when lance 243flux/sec and dont have to stay in range as long.

Or tachion lance 462/second vs autopulse laser 1250/sec

only ir pulse laser "small" with its 121flux/sec is okay becaus eit mean massing it work well.

Should pewpew guns be less flux intensiv as burst weapons? and i dont mean more flux efficient i speak about pure flux consumption here!


It also mean that hit and run ship grinder ship or any ship with energy will prefer lances for its flux management compared to the pulse laser family... the only ship that could use them efficiently witht he high energy skill will still work better with Lances weapons.

[Grievous69]

I hope you're not being serious here, as efficiency has nothing to do with what you just said. You have to look at flux and damage together to tell something. You showed Autopulse laser as being much much worse than Tachyon lance, when it's the opposite in reality. You even have a stat of efficiency in game...

[Kanjejou]

I dotn talk about efficienxy but pure flux/sec

Lance efficiency can be as *** as it need to be its not a real problem because you shot get out for 5-10 sec come back shot again.

Autopulse and Pulse in general have to stay in range so efficiency is less of a problem its pure flux consumption that matter, you cannot pressure you opponent if you burn you capacitor faster with pulse laser than lances.


Its why laser are well balanced IMHO their efficiency is not great but they can constantly pressure throught high range and low flux/sec so if you keep the range its easy to recover from hard flux by shutting down shield but still shot the target thus except if he got a 360° shield coverage he is going to take damages to its armor hull and systems.

Lance dont suffer because you pretty much burst get away flux comme back for more

Pulse like classic balistic have to stay in the 500-700 range all along and trade with the target even if it has good efficiecy if they consume 50% more flux/sec than other weapons it will struggle to achieve anything except overload its own user.

If you take 2 pulse laser(600dps vs anything) 20 OP vs 1Hmortar 140HE dps+1 arbalest 120KI dps 14 OP(around 360dps vs shiel or armor)  in pure dps pulse look way better except that the pure flux/sec value of puls is 300flux/sec so 2 give 600flux/sec  Hmortar is 180 arbalmest is 120 so its 300flux sec.

So usually its a lot harder to make the supposed brawling energy work because they self flux very hard.

600flux/sec being often more than 2 third of a destroyer/cruiser venting.

[Grievous69]

Lance efficiency can be as *** as it need to be its not a real problem

This is just plain wrong, not even a matter of opinion. It's like the most important thing in the game since combat revolves around, you know, driving up the enemy's flux. If you can deal more flux to your enemy than yourself, congratulations, you're winning. Now obviously everything isn't so black and white but generally you don't care much about flux/sec unless you really overfit your ship so it can't fire for more than 2 seconds. If your theory was even a little correct Plasma cannon would be a bad weapon, well it's the best large energy weapon in the game so yeah. And I don't know why you keep bringing Autopulse up, you get that it's a burst weapon with charges? Completely different from IR pulse laser and medium Pulse laser.

[Kanjejou]

Plasma canon is a burst gun. You dont stay on target 10sec to explode him with this bad boy you get in brust then get out get in get out go vent come back. Plus it has a better flux/second than autropulse which demonstrate my point further, most burst weapons have a better flux/sec than supposed continuous brawling ones.

and i have a hard time considering autopulse a burst gun when you take around 3 second to empty the mag, its also the only large that as the sam etype of projectile and get close pewpewpew gameplay liek the IR and pulse laser.

[Grievous69]

At this point I'm just going to assume there's some sort of language barrier and leave this thread. My dude went ahead and wrote 3 sentences where in each the opposite claim is the true one. Peace out.

[TLW]

For anti-armor small energy already has an excellent option: am blasters.

To overgeneralize: energy ships that rely on AM blasters for anti-armor far too often get torn apart or fluxlocked by ballistic-based armor-defense ships before they get a chance to close enough for the blasters to do much. (Especially given that the mobility-increasing mods tend to further reduce range.)

(The other route would be trying to get ion damage to help against that sort of ship... but the ion cannon is also shorter range than ballistics.)

This is mainly true for the AI, which far too often ends up burning/boosting into range of the ballistics (but not their own blasters) and then have no good way of retreating. Player control is far better at juggling that sort of charge+retreat, generally speaking.

(Alternatively, if someone has an AI build that doesn't suffer from this on an equal footing I'm all ears.)

[SCC]

and i have a hard time considering autopulse a burst gun when you take around 3 second to empty the mag

This is a sad day, for never again will I read this post for the first time.

[Vanshilar]

and i have a hard time considering autopulse a burst gun when you take around 3 second to empty the mag

This is a sad day, for never again will I read this post for the first time.

Technically, if the target dies within 3 seconds, he's not wrong.

[pponmypupu]

At this point I'm just going to assume there's some sort of language barrier and leave this thread. My dude went ahead and wrote 3 sentences where in each the opposite claim is the true one. Peace out.

Lol my eye brows couldn't go up any further after reading this thread.

[Wapno]

Plasma canon is a burst gun. You dont stay on target 10sec to explode him with this bad boy you get in brust then get out get in get out go vent come back. Plus it has a better flux/second than autropulse which demonstrate my point further, most burst weapons have a better flux/sec than supposed continuous brawling ones.

and i have a hard time considering autopulse a burst gun when you take around 3 second to empty the mag, its also the only large that as the sam etype of projectile and get close pewpewpew gameplay liek the IR and pulse laser.

Plasma Cannon? A burst gun? Maybe in older versions, yes, but now that the fire rate is mostly continuous?
Autopulse laser not a burst gun?
Wut?

On topic, probably the only situation where I consider IR Lasers useful is on Scarabs. There's nothing else with offensive value to put on those small energy mounts, and coupled with Temporal Shell, it's able to do some decent damage even with those anaemic lasers. It cracks open other frigates quite reliably, and can help beat up destroyers and cruisers when they're flanked.

[Kanjejou]

I think the problem is thqt Ion pulser is a better medium energie weapon