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Author Topic: Please don't overnerf the Fury  (Read 5918 times)

intrinsic_parity

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Re: Please don't overnerf the Fury
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2021, 11:28:36 AM »

As for Radiant being 60 DP.  It is stronger than Paragon, but it is an SNK boss ship that requires top Tech skills to unlock.  If it had to compete with +1 s-mod like today, I still think 40 DP is fine where it is at because it is the only thing keeping me from not getting Spec.Mods (which is also overpowered if fully exploited, especially on phase ships), and the other Remnant ships generally being too weak to justify Automated Ships. 
This logic is completely backwards. You don't balance the ships to fit the arbitrarily balanced skills, you balance the ships to be balanced independently, and then balance skills to work with the ships.
NPC-only ships do not necessarily need to be balanced the same way as playerships.  Remnants appear to be an attempt at a deliberately overpowered and unfair SNK boss faction.  (in terms of fighting games, those endgame opponents with totally unfair moves, 1HKO or 2HKOs, infinite combos, immunity to flinching or sweeping, breaks the normal rules, etc.)  Without Automated Ships, player cannot use them at all.  Automated Ships is a high-tier Tech skill, not something the player can get just by dipping one or two points in Tech.  If player wants to use those NPC ships, he needs to sink points in Tech.

With that said, the Remnant ships smaller than Radiant are comparable to the good human ships.  Not very intimidating for a boss faction.  Automated Ships are a waste on those ships (except maybe frigate spam).  Radiant is the only ship that makes Automated Ships worthwhile enough to take instead of Special Modifications.
My point is that the automated ships skill can be arbitrarily balanced. It has no effect on the game outside of its direct effects. Radiant DP is not arbitrary because it appears in enemy fleets as well as in the automated ships skill. It doesn't make any sense to balance the radiant DP around the skill when changing DP has lots of other effects. You should first balance radiant DP to make enemy fleets appropriately difficult, and then balance automated ships to work with the balanced radiant DP. Not the other way around.
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Szasz

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Re: Please don't overnerf the Fury
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2021, 08:26:52 AM »

Unpopular opinion: I think Apogees are actually priced ok at 18 because they aren't that good. They combine being slow with being short ranged so can't deal with asymmetric situations, and their enormous shield radius makes so they block allies from firing. The large missile is quite good and the large energy is potentially good for things that come to it, but they are extremely easy to lose in hard fights because of their lack of mobility. I've found them to be more liability than asset.

I'd be ok with Furies at 20 and Apogees at 18 because Furies are better!

Agreed, Apogees get mopped up by redacted, urging the player to replace them with something more capable making the 18 DP argument pointless.
Also don't forget that they are big, easy targets.
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Aurel

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Re: Please don't overnerf the Fury
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2021, 11:24:55 AM »

I think most of the power comes from the Fury's absurd tankiness. Its Flux capacity and probably Armor are imo too high.
And a large part of it is also the Shield Conversion - Front hullmod, wich is frankly overpowered. Does it really need to give you Extended Shields, Accelerated Shields AND Stabilized Shields all wrapped in one cheap hullmod, with little drawback ?

I'd much rather have a Fury for 15 DP thats a scaled up Shrike with a focus on speed and offensive than a scaled down Aurora for 20 DP with focus on relative tankiness.
The later doesn't really fit the lore of the ship.
And there is a tanky high-tech ship with 360° shields in the 20 DP range already with the Apogee.
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