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[Randaru]

Really, any such guide "should" be broken down with separate ratings for player and AI control. Otherwise you get person A saying ship X is terrible (because it is, in AI hands) and person B saying ship X is great (because it is, in player hands), and them largely taking past each other because they are both assuming the other person uses said ship in the same manner they do.

Sounds good, doesn't work. You have to be realistic about time I spend on these, which was already a lot. These were meant to be biased, and to be fun to dismantle - anything more in-depth would've probably costed me twice as long to prepare and write, while only being half as fun for the reader.

And don't get me wrong, even if I don't respond to every single comment, it doesn't mean I'm not taking notes. I learn a lot from both the nicest and the meanest comments - getting schooled both here and on Discord bumped up my game drastically. Surprisingly, the harsher the hazing, the better the info I actually learn from it, and I've managed to achieve greater results with my fleet builds since I've started taking criticism. 'Sides, I've already had a couple requests to write down a summary of what I've learned since, but I still need to both give newly acquired wisdom some time to cook in the oven, as well as roll out a Noob's Insight on hullmods - I'm less hyped about doing them, in perspective, but they're also only half the work I had to put into compared to, say, this thread.

[Igncom1]

I find that if you get really into missiles that can help 'level-up' your fleet in this game as basically all of the ship groups have at least a couple ships with decent missile mounts.

What does it matter if your ship is better then mine, when a volley of missiles is THE great equalizer.

It's what turns luddic cruisers from total jokes, to total jokes that'll blow your ass off if you are cocky.

[Jo Jo]

I built a heavy industry at my first colony and was so excited when I found the BP for an Odyssey, then after I paid 350k credits to build it I discovered it was on the B-Tier. Wondering if there were any build that could take out an A-tier Onslaught, I kept experimenting until my ship could do it with the AI piloting both. To my surprise the solution was to take the carrier portion away little by little until I was only spending 2 OP per flight deck. That's a sad commentary on the state of carriers in the current build.

The AI always pilots my ships and I'm happy I didn't just recycle my 350k credit investment. Think I'll take it with me to see what it can do against the bounty fleets.

[bob888w]

I'd say oddessy is more A- when player controlled. No other capital can hit a rear of a formation even close to as well as the Oddessy and do so while bringing multiple plasma cannons to bear

[Burvjradzite]

I want to punch you in the shoulder for disregarding our lord and savior almighty Scarab. One that point makes all your text above just wrong. All that applies to Falcon P also, but slightly in lesser scale, cuz you obviously cannot spam Falcon Ps. Omen is not a pd, you dummy, it's a good combat ship for its DP, and ai knows how to use it's system.
As says your title you are new player, so i guess, i'm not that mad. I'm sorry if you feel offended. Well, at least you do not pray to Conquest, that's alright.
Apogee is common newbie misconception. Apogee is nowhere near S tier, it's an exploration freighter, a good one, nothing more. Brawler is a trash-tier, that's not even funny why you put it on S, there are individuals who will write an essay why lasher is better than it.

[Wapno]

 Nice list! Agree about most of that stuff, although some things have baffled me.

- Hyperion? In S-TIER?! Are you out of your mind?! That pile of garbage is B-tier at most. Yes, it has impressive, destroyer-grade flux stats and weapon mounts, but almost the logistics of a freaking capital ship, the most pathetic peak performance time in the game, and on top of it all, is made out of paper. Its ship system is pretty useless now for anything else than quickly closing the distance, and/or instantly putting itself in a dangerous spot where it cannot easily escape from and it dies. I don't see any practical use for it. The amount of nerfing this ship has received between the updates is absolutely comical.
- Scarab is not a B-tier. That thing kills stuff faster than the Tempest, and with its ship system it can keep up the pace with the latter. The logistical difference between the ships is negligible (in fact, they both cost the same amount of DP to deploy).

I also find it somewhat amusing that the Odyssey is in B-tier, while when player-piloted, it's easily capable of ripping apart everything in all higher tiers (without character skills, it does get a few small bruises when pummeling the Paragon, but that's it). With Helmsmanship and System Expertise, it outruns some of the frigates. I do have to agree that it has an awkward setup (main guns being only on the port side) which makes it difficult to handle, and the AI is mostly incapable of effectively taking advantage of its speed.

Lastly, I wholeheartedly agree about the Ziggurat. In fact, I'm surprised that it's not in an even lower tier. Aside from its nightmare logistics and comical DP/CR stats, the fact that it nullfies disabled transponder makes it a completely useless ship, and a major disappointment of the update. Honestly, the "easily recognizable" trait is a pretty horrible balancing choice.

[Low Settings]

Intro:

Harbinger: Whereas Doom is a ship that has great strategic value in the hands of a competent player, Harbinger is a ship that is completely busted by design, no matter which hands we are talking about.

I lol'd 

[FooF]

- Hyperion? In S-TIER?! Are you out of your mind?! That pile of garbage is B-tier at most. Yes, it has impressive, destroyer-grade flux stats and weapon mounts, but almost the logistics of a freaking capital ship, the most pathetic peak performance time in the game, and on top of it all, is made out of paper. Its ship system is pretty useless now for anything else than quickly closing the distance, and/or instantly putting itself in a dangerous spot where it cannot easily escape from and it dies. I don't see any practical use for it. The amount of nerfing this ship has received between the updates is absolutely comical.

Hyperion is absolutely A tier, possibly S when you stack all the relevant skills on top of it. If you put SO on it, it can use its teleport at will. With shield upgrades/skills and can take a surprising amount of damage and getting behind bigger ships to unload Heavy Blasters or Ion Pulsers is just too easy. Personally, I put a Heavy MG in the universal slot to bring down shields but you can do a lot with that mount. I like it without SO but getting out of situations is trickier because of the need for 0-flux boost to teleport. Other than that, it’s ridiculously good and easily worth the DP cost.

[Burvjradzite]

Nice list! Agree about most of that stuff, although some things have baffled me.

- Hyperion? In S-TIER?! Are you out of your mind?! That pile of garbage is B-tier at most. Yes, it has impressive, destroyer-grade flux stats and weapon mounts, but almost the logistics of a freaking capital ship, the most pathetic peak performance time in the game, and on top of it all, is made out of paper. Its ship system is pretty useless now for anything else than quickly closing the distance, and/or instantly putting itself in a dangerous spot where it cannot easily escape from and it dies. I don't see any practical use for it. The amount of nerfing this ship has received between the updates is absolutely comical.
- Scarab is not a B-tier. That thing kills stuff faster than the Tempest, and with its ship system it can keep up the pace with the latter. The logistical difference between the ships is negligible (in fact, they both cost the same amount of DP to deploy).

I beg your pardon? Do you actually used Hyperion? I know many players got repelled by x2 maintenance and ppt, i was one of them. But Hyperion really worth that much, it's a cruiser punch in a frigate body. With wolfpack and skilled officer it rips space and time on the battlefield. Clearly it's an SSS+ tier and 100% pick in frigate tactics, and it even good choice for admiral without red skills because how convenient piloting it is. PPT boosted like crazy also with said officers and wolfpack, and with reliable subsystems.
Scarab also sss+ tier just because 18 no cooldown sabots build exist.

[RemnantAI]

Odyssey B tier. That's a good one.

[Wapno]

- Hyperion? In S-TIER?! Are you out of your mind?! That pile of garbage is B-tier at most. Yes, it has impressive, destroyer-grade flux stats and weapon mounts, but almost the logistics of a freaking capital ship, the most pathetic peak performance time in the game, and on top of it all, is made out of paper. Its ship system is pretty useless now for anything else than quickly closing the distance, and/or instantly putting itself in a dangerous spot where it cannot easily escape from and it dies. I don't see any practical use for it. The amount of nerfing this ship has received between the updates is absolutely comical.

Hyperion is absolutely A tier, possibly S when you stack all the relevant skills on top of it. If you put SO on it, it can use its teleport at will. With shield upgrades/skills and can take a surprising amount of damage and getting behind bigger ships to unload Heavy Blasters or Ion Pulsers is just too easy. Personally, I put a Heavy MG in the universal slot to bring down shields but you can do a lot with that mount. I like it without SO but getting out of situations is trickier because of the need for 0-flux boost to teleport. Other than that, it’s ridiculously good and easily worth the DP cost.

SO on a ship which already has the lowest PPT in the game and a tremendous CR per deployment cost? I'm surprised that thing doesn't start falling apart before it even gets to shoot at anything...

I beg your pardon? Do you actually used Hyperion? I know many players got repelled by x2 maintenance and ppt, i was one of them. But Hyperion really worth that much, it's a cruiser punch in a frigate body. With wolfpack and skilled officer it rips space and time on the battlefield. Clearly it's an SSS+ tier and 100% pick in frigate tactics, and it even good choice for admiral without red skills because how convenient piloting it is. PPT boosted like crazy also with said officers and wolfpack, and with reliable subsystems.
Scarab also sss+ tier just because 18 no cooldown sabots build exist.

Yes, the whole reason why I'm posting this is how many times I've been coming back to this frigate, and every single time the game kept reminding me how it's absolutely not worth it to touch it with a 10 meter stick.

Nope, It's not a cruiser punch in a frigate body lol. It's a destroyer punch with a survivability of a kite, a cost of (almost) a battlecruiser, cosplaying as a frigate, bundled with a gimmick system.

Being able to teleport behind enemy ship and blast it with ion pulsers sounds amazing, until you realize low tech ships aren't the only enemies, and omni shields exist. And if you REALLY want to do that, just go grab a Harbinger. That one doesn't even have to get behind the opponent to disable it.

There is nothing this frigate can do which another ship in the game cannot already do for a fraction of the cost (and can be deployed more than once). The fact that it needs officers and specific character skills to function just adds insult to the injury, and only proves my point.

Pretty much the only things Hyperion has going for are the teleporter (which gets more and more crippled with every update, and - again - right now is most useful for jumping right into a spot where Hyperion will die the quickest), and its flux stats, which indeed, are VERY impressive, but are still nowhere near a justification for its absolutely monstrous costs.

It's a definition of impracticality. It's kinda like a Hummer in real life - it's pretty, it's loud, expensive, burns a TON of fuel and unless you're going to use it to tow a freight locomotive, you really would rather drive any common city car for every day routine.

Hence, I'd place it at B rank at most.

[intrinsic_parity]

SO hyperion is very good. Even in AI hands it will reliably get more kills and do more damage than my cruisers (based on combat statistics mod), so the logistics cost is entirely justified. In player hands it will solo fleets. Wolfpack tactics is necessary for PPT, but the CR skill makes it so exceeding PPT is not a deal breaker and I will typically run it over the PPT limit.

[bob888w]

Nope, It's not a cruiser punch in a frigate body lol. It's a destroyer punch with a survivability of a kite, a cost of (almost) a battlecruiser, cosplaying as a frigate, bundled with a gimmick system.

Being able to teleport behind enemy ship and blast it with ion pulsers sounds amazing, until you realize low tech ships aren't the only enemies, and omni shields exist. And if you REALLY want to do that, just go grab a Harbinger. That one doesn't even have to get behind the opponent to disable it.

There is nothing this frigate can do which another ship in the game cannot already do for a fraction of the cost (and can be deployed more than once). The fact that it needs officers and specific character skills to function just adds insult to the injury, and only proves my point.

Pretty much the only things Hyperion has going for are the teleporter (which gets more and more crippled with every update, and - again - right now is most useful for jumping right into a spot where Hyperion will die the quickest), and its flux stats, which indeed, are VERY impressive, but are still nowhere near a justification for its absolutely monstrous costs.

It's a definition of impracticality. It's kinda like a Hummer in real life - it's pretty, it's loud, expensive, burns a TON of fuel and unless you're going to use it to tow a freight locomotive, you really would rather drive any common city car for every day routine.

Hence, I'd place it at B rank at most.

you are running your hyperions with SO and officers right? The fact that it needs skills to function isn't a very big deal since the chances you end up in the leadership path is already really high right now. You also claim that it can do anything which othwr ships can't already do which is false, It is the only ship that can beat the enemies to points in their side and win the ensuing frigate engagement as well. And under SO, the Hyperion can always teleport itself out of danger which unlike a overfluxed harbinger of doom can't do

[Megas]

you are running your hyperions with SO and officers right? The fact that it needs skills to function isn't a very big deal since the chances you end up in the leadership path is already really high right now.

It is a big deal for those who do not or cannot take Leadership because they ran out of skill points.

I tried to use Hyperion, but without Leadership skills, it was not worth it because SO is needed for classic Hyperion use (of teleport spam and all guns blazing), but without the bonuses from Wolfpack Tactics it lacked PPT.  Also, non-SO Hyperion was a pain to use because it could not support three medium elite guns well (not enough dissipation, so the universal needs to be a missile, or the mounts undergunned) and ship needs to drop shields to get out (even with elite Helmsmanship) and take damage.

So yes, Hyperion is only good with specific skills.  If player does not or cannot get them, do not bother with Hyperion.  This is unlike previous releases when Hyperion was usable out-of-the-box.

[Burvjradzite]

Yes, the whole reason why I'm posting this is how many times I've been coming back to this frigate, and every single time the game kept reminding me how it's absolutely not worth it to touch it with a 10 meter stick.

Well that means you do not have played enough yet or always played wrong with Hyperion.

Nope, It's not a cruiser punch in a frigate body lol. It's a destroyer punch with a survivability of a kite, a cost of (almost) a battlecruiser, cosplaying as a frigate, bundled with a gimmick system.

A kite? You here being hyperbolizing on ill state. Hyperion is unsinkable, literally. It got monstrous flux stats and impenetrable shield.

There is nothing this frigate can do which another ship in the game cannot already do for a fraction of the cost (and can be deployed more than once). The fact that it needs officers and specific character skills to function just adds insult to the injury, and only proves my point.

There's nothing that proves your point. Hyperion is unique ship which can travel entire battle map within couple of jumps. In a fights where forces are separate across the map it's priceless. It's a frigate and got battleAI as a frigate, it take harassing turns, it seeks vulnerabilities, it swarms in pair of other frigates. I got all proof of that in a video format loaded on youtube.

Pretty much the only things Hyperion has going for are the teleporter (which gets more and more crippled with every update, and - again - right now is most useful for jumping right into a spot where Hyperion will die the quickest), and its flux stats, which indeed, are VERY impressive, but are still nowhere near a justification for its absolutely monstrous costs.

What cost are you talking right now? 15 DP? FITHTEEN DEPLOYMENT POINTS? Is this TOO much to handle?? A cost of a destroyer? Please do not mention 30 supplies, it's irrelevant in a battle and doesn't even much in a game economy. You can pay this even at the beginning of the game and feel no poverty.

It's a definition of impracticality. It's kinda like a Hummer in real life - it's pretty, it's loud, expensive, burns a TON of fuel and unless you're going to use it to tow a freight locomotive, you really would rather drive any common city car for every day routine.

Yes, it's a hummer, but not in real life, it's a hummer in post-apocaliptic world there you can't care less about gasoline and parking spots.

Hence, I'd place it at B rank at most.

It's an S and nothing you can do about it.

Ok, i just checked that MY officered Hyperion does: 388 PPT, 0.33 shield, 9520 flux/695 flux regen, shield flux 150.
Heavy machinegun, heavy blaster, ion pulser(cryoflamer)

[close]

Btw, it's me right now:

[close]