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[Jo Jo]

I restarted the game after playing a few hours and learning a bit more, and now I find myself with a very nice, full fleet with 1 BS, several cruisers, a destroyer, and a couple of frigates. The rest are cargo ships, fuel haulers, a people hauler, and I experimented with a couple of the salvage rigs. My character is level 11, and I have about 132k credits with about 9k fuel and 1200 supplies. I just came back from my first pure survey run, where I hit only three star systems and fully maxed out my cargo of 8k. Bringing it all back and selling on the black market gave me about 220k credits plus the missions I fulfilled which brought me up to over 600k credits, before I bought a few new ships.

I'm in a bit of a bind since my expenses are 34k per month and I really have nothing to trade but some guns or I could sell fuel / supplies. My goal was to get the perfect exploration / fighting / mission fleet and take some missions that would bring me out to areas where I could explore. The problem is I spent a bit too much money and I don't know if I can get out and back before the 34k expenses do me in and I go bankrupt. I'm thinking about starting over with the lessons learned from this playthrough, though I wanted to learn a bit more about how people make money since a large fleet uses lots of fuel and supplies and then the fleet itself is expensive. I've also seen in some recent YT videos that starting a colony is not something you want to do until you have 1.5 million to sink into it. How do I get an income stream to support a nice combat / hauler fleet?

Things I have done:

1. Exploration - surprisingly lucrative, though the loot sure takes up space and requires a large freighter fleet. Really just one big run where I hit a research station and a couple of planets with ruins.
2. Trading - Could be lucrative, but sometimes you buy a load of something only to discover that some NPC has filled the order before you can arrive, even if you go straight there.
--Also, I guess I fought some pirates next to umbra or some name like that, because they wouldn't let me dock any longer. I even tried coming in with my transponder off and it still didn't work. So don't fight pirates in systems with a pirate base you want to trade with or always turn your transponder off when anywhere near a pirate base?
3. Raiding a pirate base. I've seen this on YT playthroughs, but I have never tried it. Seems like a good way to get 40k-50k credits in loot.
4. Bounty missions - They are usually quite far away and the pay is low - 40-50k to start. I've done very well fighting some of the 170k villains which made the trip worth while.
5. Academy missions - quite lucrative until you get a larger fleet, then it's break even on the missions.
6. Join a faction - Another I've seen on YT, but never tried. I like the stipend of 60k or so a month, though I don't know all the factions yet and might end up traveling somewhere through hyperspace and end up face to face with a much larger force hostile to my faction.
7. Start a colony. I would need quite a bit saved up before doing that, since smaller colonies are quite a drain on resources. My first goal would be to create a colony that created fuel or supplies so that I could go there and get a bunch at a low price.

What do you do for money until you have a few colonies going, and what is your fleet comp?
How do you raid pirate factions with marines and not end up losing access to that station? Should I never turn my transponder on from the time I enter until I leave the system? I'm still trying to work out the whole transponder thing, because if I wait until I'm out of scanner range of the pirate base, they still seem to know who I am when I turn the transponder on even while on the other side of the solar system. Thanks!

[Yunru]

The most passive way is to found (and develop) a colony.

[JAL28]

Without colonies you're unlikely to breach over 10 million without no-lifing, so your best bet to getting over 10mil cash is to found a profitable colony

For me, it's drug running all the way. Eochu Bres commonly sells the cheapest and most accessible drugs in the core worlds, and many Pirate/Pather planets have chronic shortages of such goods since nobody trades with them and most of their own convoys get slaughtered by patrols. Since Eochu Bres is a free port, you can buy stuff from it with the transponder off; however, as Culann isn't, the patrols from there will break your kneecaps if they see you with your transponder off, so I just buy the entire market dry to mitigate suspicion. From there, it's off to the highest demand world(usually pirate/pather), transponder down, ideally bring a decently sized fleet so the weak pickets and pather fleets don't get any bright ideas. If something big is orbiting then go dark, wait for them to inevitably leave and sell all the drugs on the black market. It usually nabs about 100 credits profit per 700 stack, possibly up to 200 if the deficit is bad. With full haul(around 1100 drugs is the max you can get from Eochu at any one time), you can profit in the hundred thousands.

I usually save up to 2-3mil before getting colonies. It's the bare minimum you need to not go bankrupt with raising colonies, and even two will have you sweating your back trying to pay for their upkeep/structures.

You can use SP to mitigate the rep loss and the subsequent barring from trade, but it's mostly a waste unless you want to keep your operations hush(no need for pirates unless you're running pacifist, to which you shouldn't be thinking about raiding at all). Raiding is generally an easy way of getting supplies for "free" which beats buying them from just about anywhere.

The transponder is a flying red flag to anything around you. It's usually suicide or otherwise unwise to use the transponder unless absolutely necessary(IE to prevent pickets flagging you down).

My fleet comp this save is cruiser-centric, with a few high-tech destroyers(Medusa, a few other modded ones), a Phaeton and a Colossus. I usually pack enough ships to put all my officers to use so they aren't just gathering space dust and sucking my money for nothing. It's good enough to kill off most things that want to kill me, and run from anything it can't kill.

For me, I never use capitals in my normal fleet comp. I only use capitals if I am going up against something big(eg. prepping for an invasion, or a big bounty, or Beyond the Sector shenanigans etc). Otherwise, their upkeep makes them unwise to put in my normal fleet.

[TLW]

For reference, my current fleet is

• 1x falcon
• 1x hammerhead
• 1x shrike
• 3x wolf
• 1x shepherd (drone tender used as logistics ship)
• 3x colossus (freighter)
• 1x phaeton (tanker)
• 1x salvage rig

...and a few other stats:

• Level 7
• 2x officers
• Fleet targeted at max burn 9
• total supply 1.42/day (42.5/mon?)
• total upkeep 14,520/mon
• current finances: 1040k
• 4k misc. goods stored

My next steps here are to add another phaeton and likely replace the shepherd with a better logistics ship (or two). Then add... I don't know. Aurora or Apogee, if I can get one.

The majority of this money comes from trading, primarily black market. I'm to the point now where I'll go around and buy anything at 30% less than nominal price (or better) (including tariffs if applicable, which in practice means 'I buy everything on the black market') (checking bars in the process) and when I need cash (or see a really high price for something) I'll pull out the good with the best deal and sell it. (Again, including the effects of tariffs if applicable).

That being said, I'm about at the switchover point where exploration and stockpiling / selling the resulting goods is a good idea, as I can carry enough to actually make it worth it.


A few other comments/notes:

• A significant portion of the overall cost of a fleet is in cost of the crew and officers. Running a skeleton crew can be useful if you're e.g. just trading (although be aware that combat/salvage/exploration can and will result in crew losses.)
• Mothballing ships that you aren't currently using can save you a fair chunk of change. Just make sure that unmothballing doesn't cost you more than it saves.
• Storing items or ships in most places costs you money; you can store items in
  is anyone actually spoiled by this?

  the abandoned terraforming platform

  [close]
  for no monthly fee.
• Sustained burn saves you money, as it effectively halves your supply usage / distance
• The exploration-type missions (domain-era probe, etc, etc) are very useful. Take one (or ideally a couple in the same area), and use that as a basis for your exploration.
• Pirate bases generally have very cheap or very expensive goods. Anything that the base produces (look at colony info) will generally be very cheap; anything that the base consumes but doesn't produce (food, domestic goods, etc) will generally be very expensive. (This is because they can't really trade with anyone else, and their convoys tend to get slaughtered, so far as I can tell...) You can often make a fair bit shuttling resources even in the same system back and forth to a pirate base.
• Moving slowly costs you money, both in crew salaries and in supplies. Only reason I'm at 9 instead of 10 is because expanded cargo holds are so useful.

Personally, given your situation I'd put most of the 'teeth' of the fleet in storage and do a bit of trading to get your finances up before heading out.


On the transponder, as far as I can tell (note that it's entirely possible that I'm wrong here):

• You will always take a reputation hit when doing something against a faction. Having your transponder off makes the penalty (much) smaller, but doesn't eliminate it.
• It's generally a good idea to keep the transponder off unless you're in a system where people will give you grief over it. (Why? It increases your detectable range, and there are no 'good' events for fleets intercepting you.)
• Raiding a base will prevent access for a 'while', but not permanently.
• Patrol behaviour is roughly as follows: if they see an unidentified contact they will head towards it to check it out; if they see a fleet with no transponder they will chase it down; if a fleet in sensor range turns off its transponder they will chase it down. And having a transponder on adds significantly to the detectable range. This means that it's often useful to e.g. run with transponder on and sustained burn to the nearest asteroids to the target planet, turn off sustained burn and stop, check and make sure that no-one can see you right now, go to silent running, then head to the planet.

[Sandor057]

Without a stable income (either a comission or a colony) it is rather hard to provide for the upkeep of your fleet. I usually have, at maximum, 2 cruisers, 4-8 destroyers, 10ish frigates and 6-8 support craft (cargo, fuel, troop transports, and none larger, than destroyer level) before establishing my colonies. But you won't make a bad choice using less, than that.

While you are exploring I'd suggest a comission, as you are hardly going to have problems with any faction while exploring the fringes of the sector. Also, you can establish an OK colony for storing items. I'd suggest to make one near the core worlds, and just give it a Mining industry. Without hazard pay it is unlikely to grow in population, so you should be able to use it as storage.

[TLW]

Without a stable income (either a comission or a colony) it is rather hard to provide for the upkeep of your fleet. I usually have, at maximum, 2 cruisers, 4-8 destroyers, 10ish frigates and 6-8 support craft (cargo, fuel, troop transports, and none larger, than destroyer level) before establishing my colonies. But you won't make a bad choice using less, than that.

While you are exploring I'd suggest a comission, as you are hardly going to have problems with any faction while exploring the fringes of the sector. Also, you can establish an OK colony for storing items. I'd suggest to make one near the core worlds, and just give it a Mining industry. Without hazard pay it is unlikely to grow in population, so you should be able to use it as storage.

Expensive way of getting 'free' storage. What's the advantage of this for storage?

[Jo Jo]

Without colonies you're unlikely to breach over 10 million without no-lifing, so your best bet to getting over 10mil cash is to found a profitable colony

For me, it's drug running all the way. Eochu Bres commonly sells the cheapest and most accessible drugs in the core worlds, and many Pirate/Pather planets have chronic shortages of such goods since nobody trades with them and most of their own convoys get slaughtered by patrols. Since Eochu Bres is a free port, you can buy stuff from it with the transponder off; however, as Culann isn't, the patrols from there will break your kneecaps if they see you with your transponder off, so I just buy the entire market dry to mitigate suspicion. From there, it's off to the highest demand world(usually pirate/pather), transponder down, ideally bring a decently sized fleet so the weak pickets and pather fleets don't get any bright ideas. If something big is orbiting then go dark, wait for them to inevitably leave and sell all the drugs on the black market. It usually nabs about 100 credits profit per 700 stack, possibly up to 200 if the deficit is bad. With full haul(around 1100 drugs is the max you can get from Eochu at any one time), you can profit in the hundred thousands.

I usually save up to 2-3mil before getting colonies. It's the bare minimum you need to not go bankrupt with raising colonies, and even two will have you sweating your back trying to pay for their upkeep/structures.

You can use SP to mitigate the rep loss and the subsequent barring from trade, but it's mostly a waste unless you want to keep your operations hush(no need for pirates unless you're running pacifist, to which you shouldn't be thinking about raiding at all). Raiding is generally an easy way of getting supplies for "free" which beats buying them from just about anywhere.

The transponder is a flying red flag to anything around you. It's usually suicide or otherwise unwise to use the transponder unless absolutely necessary(IE to prevent pickets flagging you down).

My fleet comp this save is cruiser-centric, with a few high-tech destroyers(Medusa, a few other modded ones), a Phaeton and a Colossus. I usually pack enough ships to put all my officers to use so they aren't just gathering space dust and sucking my money for nothing. It's good enough to kill off most things that want to kill me, and run from anything it can't kill.

For me, I never use capitals in my normal fleet comp. I only use capitals if I am going up against something big(eg. prepping for an invasion, or a big bounty, or Beyond the Sector shenanigans etc). Otherwise, their upkeep makes them unwise to put in my normal fleet.

Fantastic response and so detailed! Thanks! I have taken one job from the academy that asked me to make some kind of a deal with a Pather, though I'll be darned if I can find any of them on the map. Who are those guys? I'm playing vanilla while learning the game, and I can see the major factions in the core worlds on my map, but then everything else around them is unexplored. There are some unexplored worlds with autonomous systems (some scary fleets, and some small fleets) flying around, though I don't think you can interact with them. What do Pathers look like (color) and where do I find them? I need to see one so I'll know who they are, unless Pathers are simply pirates?

[Jo Jo]

The most passive way is to found (and develop) a colony.

Thank you. I've not done so yet, though that's certainly my goal. Just need to get a wad of cash before I start and then make some smart development and protection decisions. All new to me.

[Jo Jo]

For reference, my current fleet is

• 1x falcon
• 1x hammerhead
• 1x shrike
• 3x wolf
• 1x shepherd (drone tender used as logistics ship)
• 3x colossus (freighter)
• 1x phaeton (tanker)
• 1x salvage rig

...and a few other stats:

• Level 7
• 2x officers
• Fleet targeted at max burn 9
• total supply 1.42/day (42.5/mon?)
• total upkeep 14,520/mon
• current finances: 1040k
• 4k misc. goods stored

My next steps here are to add another phaeton and likely replace the shepherd with a better logistics ship (or two). Then add... I don't know. Aurora or Apogee, if I can get one.

The majority of this money comes from trading, primarily black market. I'm to the point now where I'll go around and buy anything at 30% less than nominal price (or better) (including tariffs if applicable, which in practice means 'I buy everything on the black market') (checking bars in the process) and when I need cash (or see a really high price for something) I'll pull out the good with the best deal and sell it. (Again, including the effects of tariffs if applicable).

That being said, I'm about at the switchover point where exploration and stockpiling / selling the resulting goods is a good idea, as I can carry enough to actually make it worth it.


A few other comments/notes:

• A significant portion of the overall cost of a fleet is in cost of the crew and officers. Running a skeleton crew can be useful if you're e.g. just trading (although be aware that combat/salvage/exploration can and will result in crew losses.)
• Mothballing ships that you aren't currently using can save you a fair chunk of change. Just make sure that unmothballing doesn't cost you more than it saves.
• Storing items or ships in most places costs you money; you can store items in
  is anyone actually spoiled by this?

  the abandoned terraforming platform

  [close]
  for no monthly fee.
• Sustained burn saves you money, as it effectively halves your supply usage / distance
• The exploration-type missions (domain-era probe, etc, etc) are very useful. Take one (or ideally a couple in the same area), and use that as a basis for your exploration.
• Pirate bases generally have very cheap or very expensive goods. Anything that the base produces (look at colony info) will generally be very cheap; anything that the base consumes but doesn't produce (food, domestic goods, etc) will generally be very expensive. (This is because they can't really trade with anyone else, and their convoys tend to get slaughtered, so far as I can tell...) You can often make a fair bit shuttling resources even in the same system back and forth to a pirate base.
• Moving slowly costs you money, both in crew salaries and in supplies. Only reason I'm at 9 instead of 10 is because expanded cargo holds are so useful.

Personally, given your situation I'd put most of the 'teeth' of the fleet in storage and do a bit of trading to get your finances up before heading out.


On the transponder, as far as I can tell (note that it's entirely possible that I'm wrong here):

• You will always take a reputation hit when doing something against a faction. Having your transponder off makes the penalty (much) smaller, but doesn't eliminate it.
• It's generally a good idea to keep the transponder off unless you're in a system where people will give you grief over it. (Why? It increases your detectable range, and there are no 'good' events for fleets intercepting you.)
• Raiding a base will prevent access for a 'while', but not permanently.
• Patrol behaviour is roughly as follows: if they see an unidentified contact they will head towards it to check it out; if they see a fleet with no transponder they will chase it down; if a fleet in sensor range turns off its transponder they will chase it down. And having a transponder on adds significantly to the detectable range. This means that it's often useful to e.g. run with transponder on and sustained burn to the nearest asteroids to the target planet, turn off sustained burn and stop, check and make sure that no-one can see you right now, go to silent running, then head to the planet.

Amazing response and very nice financial record - all that cash and only level 8? I'm going to have to print this one and the long one before this and study it as I learn more about the kinds of ships out there and some of the specific systems mentioned. I absolutely understand now why the pirate bases always pay the highest prices, and the logic makes perfect sense!

On another note, your technique for running into an asteroid belt really made me laugh - so sneaky! Yes, sounds like a good plan to store some of my larger ships and simply focus on trading to build up some resources, before heading off on another exploration. I am getting better at taking a mission that requires a long journey, then staying a little to explore the surrounding stars and maybe pick up a nearby bounty kill while I'm at it. Thanks again!

[Jo Jo]

Without a stable income (either a comission or a colony) it is rather hard to provide for the upkeep of your fleet. I usually have, at maximum, 2 cruisers, 4-8 destroyers, 10ish frigates and 6-8 support craft (cargo, fuel, troop transports, and none larger, than destroyer level) before establishing my colonies. But you won't make a bad choice using less, than that.

While you are exploring I'd suggest a comission, as you are hardly going to have problems with any faction while exploring the fringes of the sector. Also, you can establish an OK colony for storing items. I'd suggest to make one near the core worlds, and just give it a Mining industry. Without hazard pay it is unlikely to grow in population, so you should be able to use it as storage.

Lots of good ideas! I'm watching Fen Muir on a YT playthrough doing the exact same thing (commission with a major power, then build rep, and start a colony in the core worlds and store everything there. I have stored things in the abandoned terraforming station, but I found a bug in the game that prevents the pop-up tooltips from counting items stored there. I created a bug report and was told that is simply the way it is for now and might be forever. If I want to know how many of a particular type of gun I have, then I have to either pay to store or create a colony and store.

If I want to create a colony that produces fuel, what is the best planet type to look for? I know I need a planet with high Volatiles, though I'm not sure at what point you can tell that the planet has those. Are there certain planet types (gas giant?) that may have a higher chance?

[SCC]

Ways to holla holla get dolla:

• Exploration: safest, slowest way to riches, but also the thing you need to do to get good colonies, which are the best money makers, so you most likely will do this anyway. And blueprints; you can also get them through raiding, but this is safer. Income will depend on luck, but you can normalise it over time. I prefer to run colossuses with some light escorts, avoid fights whenever possible, survey only habitable planets or ones with ruins.
• Bounty Hunting: riskiest, in-between income occupation. Money can be decent, but it relies on you being okay with some losses or d-mods now and then, fighting dirty and being able to keep up with the rather quick bounty progression. Contact bounties can help out somewhat as you can adjust their difficulty, but they're bothersome, hard to coordinate with other bounties thanks to UI.
• Trading Smuggling: this is what you want to do to earn fast, earn big. Smuggle drugs, organs, guns, sell supplies to pirates and pathers. Morals are a poor man's quality. I don't do this often, so you will have to refer to others for guidance, but it's good.
• Raiding: something new you can do now. Get some marines and Colossuses Mk III (the more the better, but 200 marines and 2 colossues should be enough to start), then raid pirate or pather planets when they're vulnerable, or their bases in the outer rim. Raid for supplies, fuel (if you need it) volatiles, drugs or organs; for best results all at once, as distractions decrease casualties. When raiding core worlds, don't raid too if stability is 0, or the planet might decivilise in the future. When raiding bases, they respawn anyway so indulge yourself! You will sustain some losses when raiding, but loot will be worth more than the losses.
• Colonies: they require the most setup (good planets, AI cores, colony items, hazard pay), but they eventually make money whatever else you are doing.

If I want to create a colony that produces fuel, what is the best planet type to look for? I know I need a planet with high Volatiles, though I'm not sure at what point you can tell that the planet has those. Are there certain planet types (gas giant?) that may have a higher chance?

You want a planet without an atmosphere. Fuel Production industry can be built anywhere, but Synchrotron Core cannot be installed on planets with atmosphere.
To find volatiles, look for Frozen, Cryovolcanic and Gas/Ice Giant planets. Only giants can have their mining be upgraded with Plasma Dynamo, though.

[Ribencortez]

"If I want to create a colony that produces fuel, what is the best planet type to look for? I know I need a planet with high Volatiles, though I'm not sure at what point you can tell that the planet has those. Are there certain planet types (gas giant?) that may have a higher chance?"

you'll need a planet with the 'no atmosphere' modifier because it's needed by the item that can increase fuel production.

[Kanjejou]

"If I want to create a colony that produces fuel, what is the best planet type to look for? I know I need a planet with high Volatiles, though I'm not sure at what point you can tell that the planet has those. Are there certain planet types (gas giant?) that may have a higher chance?"

you'll need a planet with the 'no atmosphere' modifier because it's needed by the item that can increase fuel production.

Any planet with volatile will work barren(bonus to fuel making if you have the item) or gaz planet(bonus to volcatile if you have the item)
fuel need volatile to be made

[ubuntufreakdragon]

Apogees and Ventures normally pay for themselves during exploration, other Cruises are typically too expensive, a few Colossi, or a militarized augmented drive Atlas can carry much loot.
Ventures, Apogees are good in this, too, but Apogee is too rare.

A good planet always gets beaten by a good system with multiple mediocre planets that supplement each other.
Especially if you plan to add Commerce from money, which takes a precious industry slot.
e.g. I got a good hit in Duzahk, having a water world with organics a barren world without atmosphere, a volcanic with ores and two gas giants, one very hot, most at 175% hazard.
Seed if one cares: MN-4817905764762713437
the system can be self-sufficient, the giants are my military bases the barren fuel+refining+h.industry, water all civil demands, and the volcanic mining+refining+heavy industry.

[torbes]

Early game exploration fleet for me is usually 6-8 shepards, 1-2 drams or 1 phaeton, 1-3 buffalos, and 2-4 best frigates I can find - tempest, scarab, omen, lasher. Hack some comm beacons so you can pick up exploration missions without having to fly around the core. Try to cluster the missions you accept. Don't waste storage space on any good cheaper than 200-300 credits. Only worry about fighting pirates or domain junkships. Can usually find a good amount of blueprints, rare items, good planets for later colonies, even some rare derelicts and a nice safe way to build a few million credits.

Also stay away from surveying gas giants at this stage as their cost in supplies is exorbitant and are very rarely worth anything.