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[Daynen]

Ahhh, it is good to see others embrace true culture at last...learn to love the Atlas, my brothers.  It has everything you need; all it asks in return is your patience.  Once you learn to love the rumbling thunder of accelerated twin Mjolnirs, you'll never look back.  Built in hullmods are an incredible boost to its power as well; when even something like augmented burn drive can cost 0 ordnance points, you have room for so many options.  I recommend a locust launcher or two to discourage fighter screens and auxiliary thrusters to reduce the threat of flanking.  As long as you have a way to get its burn speed up to 7 or 8, the Atlas is a wonderful ship for its cost, able to standoff with capitals twice its cost in the hands of a competent pilot and able to deploy twice its number while carrying so much more of the spoils of your victories.

[Kanjejou]

I feel like this ship has a big *** red button near the captain just to DAKKKA everything in range.

the AFF is the thing that truly make this capital shine<

after more trying i trully begin to hate the enforcer and dominator, i will probably replace them with mule and another Atlas mk2

[FooF]

As mentioned, it's not quite apples and oranges but it's close.

The Atlas Mk. II is a paper tiger. It has a really mean roar but no bite because even though it can spew out a ton of dakka, it can't take a hit for anything and its shield coverage is abysmal. That being said, if all you're fighting are destroyers and transports/civilian ships, it lays waste to them. Once it starts engaging targets that don't drop in 15 seconds, its slow speed and lack of endurance become painfully obvious. AAF is the one saving grace but even with that, it can't sustain max firepower for very long at all.

The Dominator is another ship I love in theory that just doesn't quite live up to the ideal. For 25 DP, you get about 85% of an Onslaught's forward firepower and armor. It genuinely does bring Capital-grade guns in a Cruiser-sized package. However, because its flux stats don't quite measure up, all that firepower ends up being short-lived (much like the Atlast Mk. II above). At the least the Dominator has no lack of staying power: it is still a tough nut to crack. I imagine the skill changes next update will end up giving the Dominator new life but until then, I would still rate it as one of the inferior main Cruisers. Personally, I like the idea of the Dominator being a "Bully" of anything smaller than it, including other Cruisers. Going toe-to-toe with it should lead to swift death for anything short of a Capital. As it is, any of the other Cruisers can still basically sit in front of it and duke it out and even Destroyers don't have a lot to fear because the Dom just can't keep its guns on them long enough.

Edit: Looks like the Dominator is getting a buff

FWIW, here's the in-dev patch notes section on the Dominator:

Dominator:
   Increased ordnance points to 200 (was: 190)
      XIV version gets +10 OP as well
   Increased flux dissipation to 500 (was: 450)
   Substantially increased hitpoints
   Reduced shield upkeep to 0.4 (was: 0.5)

The flux boosts and extra OP are obviously welcome but the "substantially increased hitpoints" has me most intrigued. What are we talking here? 11k to 14-15k? Basically on par with the other non-Battleship capitals? Pair this with the new skills, heavy armor and reinforced bulkheads and a Dominator won't be much easier to take down than on Onslaught.

I like that the buff is doubling-down on Low Tech strengths. I know extra HP won't save it from being flanked n' ganked by some faster ship but if the Dominator still takes forever to kill, it gives time for other fleet assets to assist. Also, this really distinguishes it from the "other" Heavy Cruiser, the Champion, which was already 90% of the toughness of a Dominator with the advantage of having far better-leveraged firepower. It doesn't make the Champion any less tough, it just makes the Dominator the undisputed King of Bricks among Cruisers: where it should be.

[Null Ganymede]

Capital-scale AAF is scary. Two larges is too much, it blows through ships before they can retreat behind another ship and vent.

[intrinsic_parity]

Atlas MK II would be much scarier if it had decent flux stats, and shields, and hull, and armor, and OP... It has like one or two things going for it and like 10 going against it.

As it stands, you just shoot it, and then it is maxed on flux and can't shoot back, and then it dies instantly because it has paper armor and hull.

[Kanjejou]

Atlas MK II would be much scarier if it had decent flux stats, and shields, and hull, and armor, and OP... It has like one or two things going for it and like 10 going against it.

As it stands, you just shoot it, and then it is maxed on flux and can't shoot back, and then it dies instantly because it has paper armor and hull.

Its a capital ship you have all the OP needed to fill up its flux stats. +400-600 flux is usually enought to make it flux neutral, if you minmax and equip only a single side you can easily max flux take +60% range a defensiv perk and then some capacitors...

Plus you keep comparing it to ship 10-15 DP costlier, every ship in its DP range would be eaten alive during its AAF activation+double large missile spam.
and against bigger contender you will have frigates and destroyer to help it crush opposition.

[intrinsic_parity]

I haven't compared it to anything, I've just said that I don't see a role in my fleet for a ship with capital burn/logistics, civilian sensors, low tech shields, and light cruiser base stats.

If you really want to compare to the dominator, lets put an OP value on the base combat stat advantages of the dominator:
100 more base dissipation (10 OP worth of vents)
2000 more base capacity (10 OP worth of caps)
750 more armor (lmao that's 50% more than capital grade heavy armor gives, which costs 40 OP and has a major downside, arguably should be like a 65 OP downside)
2000 more hull (by my math that's like 16 OP since it's about 55% of the value of reinforced bulkheads, we will call it 15 to be generous, but realistically, that hull is also way more valuable with the extra armor because of the residual armor system)
 
So you're paying like 100 OP in combat stat losses

Now you look at campaign stats
ADF costs 40 OP
efficiency overhaul is 15 OP (to make up for worse fuel consumption, but it also gives other benefits so maybe only 8 OP or something)
militarized subsystems is 25 OP

Another 70-80 OP in campaign stat disadvantages.

You have 30 more OP so you're paying a net ~140-150 OP for a much better ship system and moderately better mounts that you can't even fill/utilize (and I guess some extra fuel capacity and cargo but it's really not that much more) compared to the dominator that I don't even consider to be good (getting a buff next patch). I really don't see much argument for using it, plenty of other ships provide a solid level of fire power without all the massive downsides.

[Kanjejou]

For dissipator and capacity yeah its a net difference(but extra OP can compensate), but armor and hull most of the time doesnt matter if your not using it as a battering ram that you should not use it for(its more of a battle barge...Also the two Large missile of the Atlasmk2 allow it to *** instantly anything smaller than a cruiser, keep pressure on cruiser and capitals, add AAF allow it to to win the flux war vs any cruiser that dare do a standoff against it, only the phase ship and the very mobile and bursty one will kill it easily which is also the same weakness for the Dominator.

And even with 140 OP( for me I woudl only count dissipator capacitor and Militarise+package so around 60 OP) in favor fo the dominator its gun placement and configuration make it weaker than a civi Atlas MK2 that will dab on him in a single AAF, even if the Dominator Burn drive to melee range. they have aroudn the same firepower but Atlas will have more range and Dominator more tanking.

If you compare Atlas MK 2 to 40DP capital of course its supposed to lose look at the lasher its also a good/decent ship for its size because its the lowest DP for its class.
If you compare to the Dominator don't forget the AAF and different Mount (2large missile change a lot) , also with militarised and Assault package the difference between those two get a lot lower.

Usually both will have as many offensiv gun pointing at a target(2 large balistic 2 medium+missiles),but one got AAF a smaller profile and omni shield the other fixed mount burn drive and front shield.

For me what make the Atlas mk2 great is that its cheap in DP and bring the fire power of 2 cruiser for the price of one with more range. its brittle it slow down your fleet but it can punch down very hard and up dencently for 24DP

[Brainwright]

I would never use the Atlas II as the head of my fleet.  I'd have it support something more capable, like an Odyssey.

There are a lot of ships that don't work well on their own.  They can still do quite well if faster ships take the lead and do most of the fighting.

[intrinsic_parity]

For dissipator and capacity yeah its a net difference(but extra OP can compensate), but armor and hull most of the time doesnt matter if your not using it as a battering ram that you should not use it for(its more of a battle barge...

Armor and hull matter a ton for a ship with 30 speed and 1.0 shield efficiency. It has virtually no ability to run or survive if anything ever goes wrong (and things are almost guaranteed to go wrong). If you are piloting yourself, maybe you can play safe, but the AI absolutely needs armor and hull to not die, plus it's a total waste of skills to pilot it yourself. If I am losing the ship in combat regularly  and having deal with extra d-mods, that makes it much worse.

If you compare Atlas MK 2 to 40DP capital of course its supposed to lose look at the lasher its also a good/decent ship for its size because its the lowest DP for its class.
If you compare to the Dominator don't forget the AAF and different Mount (2large missile change a lot) , also with militarised and Assault package the difference between those two get a lot lower.

For me what make the Atlas mk2 great is that its cheap in DP and bring the fire power of 2 cruiser for the price of one with more range. its brittle it slow down your fleet but it can punch down very hard and up dencently for 24DP

For like the 3rd time, I'm not comparing it to real capital ships. I'm comparing it to the dominator, saying that it's comparable, maybe slightly worse at what I would use the dominator for and maybe slightly better at things I don't think matter much, and then saying I don't think the dominator is worth using usually, so by extension the atlas is also not worth using. That's my reasoning, it has nothing to do with comparisons to capital ships.

For what it's worth, I would rather have a real capital ship (Paragon, legion XIV, conquest, odyssey) than two atlases, but that's a much more complicated comparison and I'd rather stick to the simple slow heavy cruiser comparison.

If I wanted to spend ~25 DP on a slow heavy cruiser, I would use the champion which is significantly better than either altas or dominator IMO. But by late game, I would just not use slow cruisers because they aren't tanky enough to fight radiants and other endgame enemies, and they aren't fast enough to escape. In the early-mid game, I think atlas is bad because of campaign stats (fuel/supply cost, low burn etc.). In the late game, I think it is bad because of a lack of survivability, so there is no time when I want to use it.

Also, I didn't consider Assault package, but it costs 15 OP, and gives 10% hull (~6-7 OP), 5% armor (3 OP), and 10% capacity (4 OP), so it's basically neutral in the OP comparison, maybe even slightly negative. It certainly does not close the gap in any meaningful way. I still see a ship that needs to spend 100+ OP to have comparable base stats to the dominator. If you are willing to pay extra fuel and reduce your burn to use the ship, then you are paying the price in a different way, but at the end of the day those are still significant disadvantages compared to dominator that I am not going to just ignore. They matter a lot in the early-mid game.

[Kanjejou]

Okay i get your point. I still fear Atlas MK2 more than dominator for the insane missile spam thay can inflict and hail of bullet they unleach they die fast but kill stuff fast too.

[intrinsic_parity]

Okay i get your point. I still fear Atlas MK2 more than dominator for the insane missile spam thay can inflict and hail of bullet they unleach they die fast but kill stuff fast too.

Large missiles are definitely strong. I think if I could fit double hurricane with expanded missiles and ECCM on atlas without giving up a ton of other stuff, I would be a lot more interested for early game missiles spam. I think with 3 story point hull mods and a good officer, it's probably pretty decent, but I really don't want to spend so much on a ship that I won't even use in endgame. I love legion XIV primarily because it can run double hurricane, and champion also has a large missile, so I think I get the same effect from other ships that I like more. At the end of the day, most stuff will work well enough for a lot of the game, but when you have to try to fight late game enemies like multiple radiants, you have to be a bit more picky and go for the strongest stuff.

I remember I once played with a mod that added an XIV Atlas MK. II that had free built in militarized subsystems plus the XIV hullmod for extra dissipation, capacity and armor. That ship was solid in mid game for me, although I ended up cutting it later on. It's definitely like 40-50 OP away from being a good ship IMO, but it just doesn't get there for me in vanilla.

[Dread Lord Murubarda]

atlas with 2 mjollnirs , 2 squalls, rest flux stats, expanded missiles, maybe ECCM, I don't remember, piloted by the player was consistently #1 dmg dealer with only 24 dp. only reason I stopped using it was coz it was an ugly piece of junk compared to my fleet. rly wish the atlas got a nice paint job Legio Infernalis style.

I am using it in my  ordo hunting fleet, I turn on the AAF and the mjollinrs start obliterating stuff, I recommend to everyone to try it. this pirate style glass cannon is awesome. but if you overextend even 1 millimeter you are FOKEN DED!!!!!!

[Kanjejou]

Personnaly depending on what i fight i just switch the build right know i dont have much end game gear so my large are mostly:

hellbore canon +2x arbalete autocanon+2x locust srm +some vulcan.

or MKIX +2x Heavy mortar+2x locust srm +some vulcan.

and it work on pretty much anything that isnt stronger than Onslaught and Conquest.