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Author Topic: Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods  (Read 480 times)

speedflyer123

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Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods
« on: July 31, 2021, 06:51:15 AM »

tldr: Low OP hullmods should get a buff when built-in, high OP hullmods should get a nerf when built in, or a combination of the two.

Hi,

I just finished my second playthrough, and I've really enjoyed the game so far! However, one part that I don't really like is how story point/built-in hullmods work.

Right now, it seems like the strategy is to just build in the highest OP hull mods and get a bunch of extra OP on your ship. It was pretty fun to fly around decimating enemy fleets at first, but on my second playthrough building in hullmods felt like something I did almost immediately to save OP.

Another thing that confused me was how you can't build in Safety Override. I know there's an in-universe explanation, but the fact that you can build in Heavy Armour which is 5 OP less makes it feel a bit strange. I get Heavy Armour mainly benefits low-tech, which some people feel needs a buff, but not being able to build in SO feels like a band-aid solution.

I'm sure the people creating this game are way better at me in terms of game design, so this solution might not work, but here's what I've thought of: Low OP hullmods should get a buff when built-in, high OP hullmods should get a nerf when built in, or a combination of the two. The buffs/nerfs would have to be fine-tuned, but they could be as simple as increasing/decreasing effects, or could add/remove certain abilities.

If I'm missing something please point it out, this is my first post but I've spent a good amount of time on the forums and people seem to be really nice.

Thanks!
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Evito

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Re: Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2021, 07:08:41 AM »

This would quickly spiral into a lot of make work to keep it "balanced".
Authentic feel also mandates that not all design follows a strict MMO gamified balance notion.
The ships and systems should feel consistent with tech theme, faction and fleet gameplay not individual ship minmaxing.

That said i am not perfectly at ease with the story point built-in mod system either, it feels a little like offloading the previous more focused skillsystem onto the ships.
Mind you that isnt a bad notion i kind of agree since it reduces pressure to absolutely minmax officers and instead gives a cost to specialized ships.

Personally i feel that the skills and hullmods could use another pass to make them more interesting instead and ensure higher quality NPC fleets also use sensible built-in mods.
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Sutopia

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Re: Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2021, 07:12:24 AM »

Why not just increase the deployment point cost of the ship according to the OP built in?

speedflyer123

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Re: Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2021, 07:27:14 AM »

Why not just increase the deployment point cost of the ship according to the OP built in?

That could work too, although it could just lead to a consensus on how many to build-in, which hullmods to build-in etc if that was added.

It seems now that the suggestion I made earlier is too complex to implement. I still feel like built-in hull-mods needs some changes though.
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Megas

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Re: Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2021, 08:40:26 AM »

Low OP mods get more bonus XP when integrated.  Of course, not much help for those ships that will stay in your fleet forever who want the most expensive must-have mods for maximum effective OP.  My biggest gripe is it encourages me not to s-mod ships until later after I find those s-mods.  I do not want to waste s-mods on the likes of Blast Doors or Dedicated Targeting Core or other starters before I find the best mods to integrate, which often happens sometime between midgame and endgame.

It could have been more max OP instead of s-mods, but that did not happen.
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Gothars

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Re: Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2021, 11:13:01 AM »

If build-in mods were not free but had their OP cost reduced by a percentage, say 50%, that would help. It would give a real reason to pick cheaper mods.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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SCC

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Re: Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2021, 11:21:02 AM »

If build-in mods were not free but had their OP cost reduced by a percentage, say 50%, that would help. It would give a real reason to pick cheaper mods.
Halving both 2 and 20 that one is ten times as big as the other, making it favourable to build-in. A flat OP reduction would have to be used instead to encourage integrating less expensive hullmods.

Gothars

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Re: Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2021, 03:31:13 PM »

In your 2/20example, what would that flat reduction be? If its 2, the more expensive hullmod is barely discounted. If it's, say, 10, you would waste 8 points by building in a 2op hullmod.

If you cut cost in half, you now have a 1op vs a 10op hullmod. That seems like a meaningful choice.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2021, 11:02:32 PM »

SO costs 15/30/45/- OP (not possible to mount on capitals), heavy armor costs 8/15/20/40. So SO costs 7/15/25 more OP than heavy armor, it's basically a full extra hull mod more OP. SO is by far the most expensive hull mod in the game and it was way too strong to build it in.
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SCC

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Re: Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2021, 01:09:38 AM »

In your 2/20example, what would that flat reduction be? If its 2, the more expensive hullmod is barely discounted. If it's, say, 10, you would waste 8 points by building in a 2op hullmod.

If you cut cost in half, you now have a 1op vs a 10op hullmod. That seems like a meaningful choice.
The objective is not to integrate any given hullmod, but to save the most ordnance points by choosing to integrate the most expensive hullmod you would have picked anyway. Flat reduction is better for choices, because it doesn't change how much OP you can save on any given hullmod. A percentage reduction doesn't change that whether you can reduce a hullmod's price to 0% or to 50%, integrating a less expensive hullmod will always save you fewer OPs, whether the choice is between saving 2 or 20 OPs (with 100% price reduction), or between saving 1 or 10 OPs (with 50% price reduction), because one is always ten times more expensive than the other and it always saves ten times more OP than the other.

Gothars

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Re: Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2021, 01:39:23 AM »


The objective is not to integrate any given hullmod, but to save the most ordnance points by choosing to integrate the most expensive hullmod you would have picked anyway.

I dont think that's accurate. You will often pick an expensive hullmod that you would not have picked normally, just because it's free.

Anyway, it's a bit of a individual question wether you are looking to safe the most OP on a hullmod, or wether to you want to integrate the hullmod that fits your loadout best, for a good price.
Flat reduction is good for the former, percentage reduction for the latter.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 01:41:23 AM by Gothars »
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SCC

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Re: Buff low OP or nerf high OP built-in hullmods
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2021, 02:12:05 AM »

The reason why I wrote of saving OPs and not getting free OPs is because I assumed any hullmod we're discussing is of at least some interest to the player.
I dont think that's accurate. You will often pick an expensive hullmod that you would not have picked normally, just because it's free.
The closest I've got is Expanded Missile Racks and Heavy Armour. Those two are hullmods that are sometimes worth the build-in slot, but not their worth in OPs, but I'd say they more often are worth both or neither, than only one. Other expensive hullmods (ITU, HS, Aux Thrusters, etc) are always worth both the OP and the slots, or neither the OP or the slots, with only exception of HS, due to it sometimes being desirable, but not actually more efficient than getting HS's worth of caps.