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Author Topic: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod  (Read 3645 times)

Sutopia

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2021, 04:00:04 PM »

Sensor skill makes it possible to move “slowly” at burn 8 which is not slow at all, thus I don’t think any hullmod should be able to mitigate the asteroid impact completely especially regarding knocking off course effect.

You can do the same through hyperspace storms but solar shielding still reduces that.
It’s reduced damage but it doesn’t reduce the storm frequency and it doesn’t stop the storm from yeeting you.
But with the reduced damage both of those becomes pluses. If anything, it's better than simply negating those two things.
Not really? You have no control over your fleet when you got yeeted by storm and a bad entry may knock you way off course ending up using more time and more fuel.
Incorrect; the amount you are knocked off course is directly controllable (via your speed iirc), such that fleets can storm-surf in a straight line from location to destination with practically no deviance.
You’re talking about hyperdrive using speed to control distance.

The angle you get yeeted is determined by the relative angle between you and the storm if you did not slow down prior to contact, and the yeet speed is fixed 30.
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Sutopia

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2021, 04:07:17 PM »

Dunno, pretty sure it has already been suggested, but tacking some reduction of asteroid strikes onto a skill might be a better idea.  This could then mesh with hull mod use to completely or significantly reduce strike chance at speed (since you can always just go slowly through asteroid fields instead)...
The sensor skill already does quite that. It increases the slow moving burn by 3 which is huge. Any other way of mitigating of asteroid impact other than buffing sensor skill is, IMO, undermining the sensor skill.
I think it would be fine if sensor skill get that buff (reduced asteroid impact chance) since I have the impression that the majority of people pick navigation over sensor. If such hullmod or whatever way other than skill is implemented, sensor will be a dead skill that noone would ever pick.

The sensor skill is about sensors, so adding ability to somewhat reduce asteroid strikes when burning at full speed WOULDN'T undermine the sensors skill.  Since, you know, NPC fleets can still generally detect you much more easily and therefore chase you when going at full speed.  Plus, only basically mutually exclusive NOW, but this is supposed change in a few months (unless I misread the skill changes).  Players would therefore be able to more easily pick BOTH skills, which I would prefer definitely prefer (much rather waste a skill point on that than other skills, since can always just reroll later).  But as I have stated in other threads, maybe I'm just biased against the current skill system since I straight up hate the wrap-around mechanic and how it essentially forces mutually exclusive skills (good for highest tier skills, stupid for lowest tier).

But I mainly suggested it to mesh with hull mods because relying too much on hull mods to only achieve certain effects is basically the same issue as forcing mutually exclusive skills.  Although this would be mitigated to some degree if custom built ships add the ability to build in certain hull mods without wasting a story point.
Story point is free (you can earn however many you want) so it’s not a deterrent. It’s unlike skill points being a very limited resource.

I took sensor skill mainly for the +3 slow move burn, not the sensor range/profile. If you want to get better sensor you can just S-mod high resolution sensor into your logistics.

NPC able to detect you better is mainly due to the sensor array system installment.
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KDR_11k

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2021, 10:58:05 PM »

Personally I always go sensor first since I do a lot of exploring and spotting hostiles before they spot me is pretty useful, also faster sneaking...
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Yunru

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2021, 02:02:48 AM »

You’re talking about hyperdrive using speed to control distance.

The angle you get yeeted is determined by the relative angle between you and the storm if you did not slow down prior to contact, and the yeet speed is fixed 30.
Here's the entire code:
Code
package com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.terrain;

import java.awt.Color;

import org.lwjgl.util.vector.Vector2f;

import com.fs.starfarer.api.EveryFrameScript;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.Global;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.CampaignFleetAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.fleet.FleetMemberViewAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.terrain.HyperspaceTerrainPlugin.CellStateTracker;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.util.Misc;

public class HyperStormBoost implements EveryFrameScript {

public static float MAX_BURN = Global.getSettings().getFloat("maxStormStrikeBurn");
public static float STORM_SPEED_BURST = Global.getSettings().getSpeedPerBurnLevel() * 50f;
public static float DURATION_SECONDS = 1f;

protected CampaignFleetAPI fleet;
protected float elapsed;
protected float angle;
protected CellStateTracker cell;

public HyperStormBoost(CellStateTracker cell, CampaignFleetAPI fleet) {
this.cell = cell;
this.fleet = fleet;

DURATION_SECONDS = 1.25f;
STORM_SPEED_BURST = Global.getSettings().getSpeedPerBurnLevel() * 75f;
// DURATION_SECONDS = 2f;
// STORM_SPEED_BURST = Global.getSettings().getSpeedPerBurnLevel() * 50f;

if (Misc.getHyperspaceTerrain().getPlugin() instanceof HyperspaceTerrainPlugin) {
HyperspaceTerrainPlugin hyper = (HyperspaceTerrainPlugin) Misc.getHyperspaceTerrain().getPlugin();

float x = hyper.getEntity().getLocation().x;
float y = hyper.getEntity().getLocation().y;
float size = hyper.getTileSize();

float w = hyper.getTiles().length * size;
float h = hyper.getTiles()[0].length * size;

x -= w/2f;
y -= h/2f;

float tx = x + cell.i * size + size/2f;
float ty = y + cell.j * size + size/2f;

angle = Misc.getAngleInDegrees(new Vector2f(tx, ty), fleet.getLocation());

Vector2f v = fleet.getVelocity();
float angle2 = Misc.getAngleInDegrees(v);
float speed = v.length();
if (speed < 10) angle2 = fleet.getFacing();

float bestAngleAt = Global.getSettings().getBaseTravelSpeed() + Global.getSettings().getSpeedPerBurnLevel() * 20f;
float mult = 0.5f + 0.4f * speed / bestAngleAt;
if (mult < 0.5f) mult = 0.5f;
if (mult > 0.9f) mult = 0.9f;

angle += Misc.getClosestTurnDirection(angle, angle2) * Misc.getAngleDiff(angle, angle2) * mult;
}
}

public void advance(float amount) {
elapsed += amount;

Vector2f boost = Misc.getUnitVectorAtDegreeAngle(angle);

float mult = 1f;
mult = 1f - elapsed / DURATION_SECONDS;
mult *= Math.pow(Math.min(1f, elapsed / 0.25f), 2f);
if (mult < 0) mult = 0;
if (mult > 1) mult = 1;
boost.scale(STORM_SPEED_BURST * amount * mult);

Vector2f v = fleet.getVelocity();

if (fleet.getCurrBurnLevel() < MAX_BURN) {
fleet.setVelocity(v.x + boost.x, v.y + boost.y);
}

float angleHeading = Misc.getAngleInDegrees(v);
if (v.length() < 10) angleHeading = fleet.getFacing();

boost = Misc.getUnitVectorAtDegreeAngle(angleHeading);
boost.negate();
if (boost.length() >= 1) {
float durIn = 1f;
float durOut = 3f;
float intensity = 1f;
float sizeNormal = 5f + 30f * intensity;
String modId = "boost " + cell.i + cell.j * 100;
Color glowColor = new Color(100, 100, 255, 75);
for (FleetMemberViewAPI view : fleet.getViews()) {
view.getWindEffectDirX().shift(modId, boost.x * sizeNormal, durIn, durOut, 1f);
view.getWindEffectDirY().shift(modId, boost.y * sizeNormal, durIn, durOut, 1f);
view.getWindEffectColor().shift(modId, glowColor, durIn, durOut, intensity);
}
}
}

public boolean isDone() {
return elapsed >= DURATION_SECONDS || !fleet.isInHyperspace();
}

public boolean runWhilePaused() {
// TODO Auto-generated method stub
return false;
}

}
As you can see, the fleet velocity directly influences any change in direction.

Sutopia

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2021, 06:32:52 AM »

It adds additional speed onto your original vector which means if the additional vector doesn’t line up with your og vector i.e. not having the right angle of approach it’ll knock you off course.
On addition to that, if you got yeeted into consecutive storms, you get speed locked and have little control over the fleet so you can get thrown way off course.
You can only have a fine tuned catapult of you have the right angle approach in the process of speeding up into 30 because it wouldn’t further change your vector after maxing out.

This has nothing to do with our discussion.

The point I was trying to communicate is the effect doesn’t stop that initial vector change and does not prevent you getting speed locked if you made a mistake in initial approach.
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2021, 05:04:45 PM »

.....what i dont understand though is why it increases fuel use when that happens
if the storm is propelling you, shouldnt fuel use at most just stay the same as whatever it was when you got hit?
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2021, 06:18:43 PM »

Dunno, pretty sure it has already been suggested, but tacking some reduction of asteroid strikes onto a skill might be a better idea.  This could then mesh with hull mod use to completely or significantly reduce strike chance at speed (since you can always just go slowly through asteroid fields instead)...
The sensor skill already does quite that. It increases the slow moving burn by 3 which is huge. Any other way of mitigating of asteroid impact other than buffing sensor skill is, IMO, undermining the sensor skill.
I think it would be fine if sensor skill get that buff (reduced asteroid impact chance) since I have the impression that the majority of people pick navigation over sensor. If such hullmod or whatever way other than skill is implemented, sensor will be a dead skill that noone would ever pick.

The sensor skill is about sensors, so adding ability to somewhat reduce asteroid strikes when burning at full speed WOULDN'T undermine the sensors skill.  Since, you know, NPC fleets can still generally detect you much more easily and therefore chase you when going at full speed.  Plus, only basically mutually exclusive NOW, but this is supposed change in a few months (unless I misread the skill changes).  Players would therefore be able to more easily pick BOTH skills, which I would prefer definitely prefer (much rather waste a skill point on that than other skills, since can always just reroll later).  But as I have stated in other threads, maybe I'm just biased against the current skill system since I straight up hate the wrap-around mechanic and how it essentially forces mutually exclusive skills (good for highest tier skills, stupid for lowest tier).

But I mainly suggested it to mesh with hull mods because relying too much on hull mods to only achieve certain effects is basically the same issue as forcing mutually exclusive skills.  Although this would be mitigated to some degree if custom built ships add the ability to build in certain hull mods without wasting a story point.
Story point is free (you can earn however many you want) so it’s not a deterrent. It’s unlike skill points being a very limited resource.

I took sensor skill mainly for the +3 slow move burn, not the sensor range/profile. If you want to get better sensor you can just S-mod high resolution sensor into your logistics.

NPC able to detect you better is mainly due to the sensor array system installment.

Story point isn't free, it takes literal experience.  Which takes time.  A lot more time late game, although I guess farming [REDACTED] is the basic solution to the experience growth curve.  But so long as earning one doesn't waste too much time to get it, then yes, it is essentially "free" (which is less of an issue now since growth curve was "fixed" in a 0.95a update).

NPCs detect you just as much by burning at speed, sensor array only compounds this.  So they still detect you further even when burning in a system without them owning a sensor array, not because MAINLY a sensor array.  And sensor perk ALSO reduces your sensor detection range to increase stealth approach, can't hull mod do that it (have to use phase ships in fleet instead).

It adds additional speed onto your original vector which means if the additional vector doesn’t line up with your og vector i.e. not having the right angle of approach it’ll knock you off course.
On addition to that, if you got yeeted into consecutive storms, you get speed locked and have little control over the fleet so you can get thrown way off course.
You can only have a fine tuned catapult of you have the right angle approach in the process of speeding up into 30 because it wouldn’t further change your vector after maxing out.

This has nothing to do with our discussion.

The point I was trying to communicate is the effect doesn’t stop that initial vector change and does not prevent you getting speed locked if you made a mistake in initial approach.

Which is why storm surfing only really works when using e-burn, which is usually not used unless player has skill that reduces e-burn effect.  Or you can just accept that sometimes you end up going from Kansas to Oz...

.....what i dont understand though is why it increases fuel use when that happens
if the storm is propelling you, shouldnt fuel use at most just stay the same as whatever it was when you got hit?

Fuel usage maxes out at 20 speed but storm surfing can get you up to 30 (unless this changed in 0.95a update, pretty sure it didn't).  So storm surfing is much more fuel efficient, but burns through supplies faster (unless you have solar shield hull mods on fleet).  However, storm surfing is basically useless unless you are using e-burn to cancel out the randomized vector changes.  So either storm surf THROUGH the storm with e-burn, go around the storm, or sometimes end up in Oz.


And finally, yes, it appears that this thread has wandered off into some tangent.  Still, asteroid strikes late game are annoying as hell, something to mitigate this besides slowing down would be nice.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 06:20:37 PM by slowpersun »
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2021, 03:06:35 AM »

.....eburn?
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Sutopia

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2021, 08:34:13 AM »

.....eburn?
emergency burn

Quote
And sensor perk ALSO reduces your sensor detection range to increase stealth approach, can't hull mod do that it (have to use phase ships in fleet instead).
Insulated Engine assembly.
Both hullmods combined have more effect than the sensor skill making it near dead skill. I would never pick it if it doesn’t have the slow move speed bonus.

There is already a way to mitigate the asteroid impact: move slowly.
Sensor skill increases that speed because it does exactly what OP suggested, make your fleet better at detecting obstacles thus can cruise much faster without running into obstacles.

Are you more concerned with the knock off course effect or the hull damage inflicted? I could see it make no sense an entire fleet get knocked off course because one ship got hit.
I would propose adding the ability to thin the drive field protection, allowing no random bounces when asteroid impact happens, but double the hull damage from asteroids.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 08:51:02 AM by Sutopia »
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2021, 09:31:02 AM »

Quote
And sensor perk ALSO reduces your sensor detection range to increase stealth approach, can't hull mod do that it (have to use phase ships in fleet instead).
Insulated Engine assembly.
Both hullmods combined have more effect than the sensor skill making it near dead skill. I would never pick it if it doesn’t have the slow move speed bonus.

There is already a way to mitigate the asteroid impact: move slowly.
Sensor skill increases that speed because it does exactly what OP suggested, make your fleet better at detecting obstacles thus can cruise much faster without running into obstacles.

Are you more concerned with the knock off course effect or the hull damage inflicted? I could see it make no sense an entire fleet get knocked off course because one ship got hit.
I would propose adding the ability to thin the drive field protection, allowing no random bounces when asteroid impact happens, but double the hull damage from asteroids.

Oops, forgot about Insulated Engine hull mod, since I already put it on every ship (ie, its default for me).  Which is kinda required since I always take the navigation skill and never the sensor skill due to wrap around mechanic.  But yeah, more knock off effect than hull damage, at least in my opinion.  By the end of the game time is usually more important than money (put another way, player usually has enough money not to care), so adding a low OP cost hull mod that would basically trade extra supplies for fewer random bounces/impacts when burning at speed (ie, escaping/running) would seem to be a reasonable trade off.  Although I guess also I haven't really bothered to check the game's code, does the knock off effect increase as fleet size increases and/or with larger ship sizes in fleet (or both)?  Because I guess that would affect the need for some sort of hull mod (like maybe only really need it on a few capital ships).
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2021, 01:33:06 PM »

i think there is something that alters chances based on fleet size, but i dont know.  i think there could be something that uses something expensive (like rare metals) that you can turn on or off the same way you do the sensor ability; that would be a skill.  i also think that the skill should be a mining skill, as that just makes sense to my head.

the hull mod idea isnt bad though.  perhaps it could be something that increases fuel use a good bit, but also gives a small (10%?) maneuverability boost/increases side thrust, as in my conceptualization it makes sense to have special evasion thrusters do the job (unless of course im misunderstanding the drive bubble idea.  anyone care to explain what a drive bubble it? lol)
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Sutopia

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2021, 02:01:50 PM »

i think there is something that alters chances based on fleet size, but i dont know.  i think there could be something that uses something expensive (like rare metals) that you can turn on or off the same way you do the sensor ability; that would be a skill.  i also think that the skill should be a mining skill, as that just makes sense to my head.

the hull mod idea isnt bad though.  perhaps it could be something that increases fuel use a good bit, but also gives a small (10%?) maneuverability boost/increases side thrust, as in my conceptualization it makes sense to have special evasion thrusters do the job (unless of course im misunderstanding the drive bubble idea.  anyone care to explain what a drive bubble it? lol)

Most likely referring to the warp drive
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive
You need to form a bubble that folds the space time structure to travel FTL

Edit: auxiliary thruster already exists
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 02:04:41 PM by Sutopia »
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2021, 02:23:57 PM »

im aware of aux thrust; i was spitballing
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Sutopia

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2021, 02:27:11 PM »

im aware of aux thrust; i was spitballing
I mean I wouldn’t object if Aux Thruster is buffed to make asteroid impact less frequent.
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Asteroid navigation sensor hullmod
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2021, 02:36:45 PM »

i think there is something that alters chances based on fleet size, but i dont know.  i think there could be something that uses something expensive (like rare metals) that you can turn on or off the same way you do the sensor ability; that would be a skill.  i also think that the skill should be a mining skill, as that just makes sense to my head.

the hull mod idea isnt bad though.  perhaps it could be something that increases fuel use a good bit, but also gives a small (10%?) maneuverability boost/increases side thrust, as in my conceptualization it makes sense to have special evasion thrusters do the job (unless of course im misunderstanding the drive bubble idea.  anyone care to explain what a drive bubble it? lol)

Most likely referring to the warp drive
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive
You need to form a bubble that folds the space time structure to travel FTL

Edit: auxiliary thruster already exists

Drive bubbles is the in-game bs lore explaining why asteroid impacts throw an entire fleet off course.  It is basically just burn level, since explaining how antimatter turns into thrust is sort of pointless (it's a game, after all).  Since ox ships increase burn for entire fleet, it "affects" drive bubble.  Doesn't form or at least forms less if going slow, compared to sustained burn.  And ships can't shoot through it, so can't just shoot asteroids out of the way in asteroid belts.
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