Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[JUDGE! slowpersun]

i personally find it odd that some folks would consider SO i "must have" in terms of built in mods as the trade offs are so severe

although i tend to enjoy long range tanks more than fast hit and fade ships, regardless of the size

Game rewards quick dives to kill fluxed out ships (Reapers FTW!), therefore SO is really good for that (or phase ships, though upcoming changes to phasing should balance this).  Prolly why SO is balanced with reduced PPT now, so you have to try to use them to either grab combat objectives first or at least bottle up/slow the enemy advance.  And you can always S-mod in other hull mods to free up OP points for SO, just risky since ship much more vulnerable in late stages of any individual battle (or you retreat it and can't use it anymore in late stage, which isn't as much of an issue if you're winning).

[Gothars]

Hmm - interesting! As much as I like the idea, I hesitate to make a hullmod with already complicated effects more complicated "just" for flavor, though.

Understandable. I would argue, though, that an effect on crew makes intuitive sense. A ship with no safeties has to be less safe, right? So it would overall help to make the hullmod feel more intuitive, not more complicated.

I think the least intuitive thing about SO is the weapon range reduction. I assume that to be because the ship is constantly emitting high levels of flux that interfer with targeting.

I was thinking, it might be cool to visualize that by showing a weaker version of the vent effect whenever flux is generated. Would also make SO ships easier to identify.

[6chad.noirlee9]

The flux venting while firing is a cool idea

[Drazan]

Hmm - interesting! As much as I like the idea, I hesitate to make a hullmod with already complicated effects more complicated "just" for flavor, though.

This is definitely not "just" for favor. SO needs a nerf, and this one is interesting, and can be balanced well.

[Alex]

Understandable. I would argue, though, that an effect on crew makes intuitive sense. A ship with no safeties has to be less safe, right? So it would overall help to make the hullmod feel more intuitive, not more complicated.

I think the least intuitive thing about SO is the weapon range reduction. I assume that to be because the ship is constantly emitting high levels of flux that interfer with targeting.

I was thinking, it might be cool to visualize that by showing a weaker version of the vent effect whenever flux is generated. Would also make SO ships easier to identify.

Hmm - that might be a bit much as far as making the visuals too busy, though I get where you're coming from with that. Re: the range reduction - my in-fiction explanation has always been something along those lines, yeah.

As far as it making intuitive sense - it does, yeah! (And, arguably, it happens indirectly by causing critical malfunctions earlier and *that* doing hull damage etc, though that doesn't come up much.) But it can be more intuitive *and* more complicated, I think those are separate things here. Like, there's already a pile of "it does this and that and this other thing" in the tooltip, and adding yet one more thing to it... still, I'll mull this over! It's definitely a cool idea.

This is definitely not "just" for favor. SO needs a nerf, and this one is interesting, and can be balanced well.

Hmm, out-of-combat effects are generally not a meaningful nerf for something powerful. I mean, it's a question of degrees, of course - if the out-of-combat effect was to increase its maintenance cost by a factor of 10, then, ok. But if we're talking about a reasonable-sounding crew casualties increase, for SO that's not going to be a very meaningful balancing factor.

[SonnaBanana]

Understandable. I would argue, though, that an effect on crew makes intuitive sense. A ship with no safeties has to be less safe, right? So it would overall help to make the hullmod feel more intuitive, not more complicated.

I think the least intuitive thing about SO is the weapon range reduction. I assume that to be because the ship is constantly emitting high levels of flux that interfer with targeting.

I was thinking, it might be cool to visualize that by showing a weaker version of the vent effect whenever flux is generated. Would also make SO ships easier to identify.

Hmm - that might be a bit much as far as making the visuals too busy, though I get where you're coming from with that. Re: the range reduction - my in-fiction explanation has always been something along those lines, yeah.

As far as it making intuitive sense - it does, yeah! (And, arguably, it happens indirectly by causing critical malfunctions earlier and *that* doing hull damage etc, though that doesn't come up much.) But it can be more intuitive *and* more complicated, I think those are separate things here. Like, there's already a pile of "it does this and that and this other thing" in the tooltip, and adding yet one more thing to it... still, I'll mull this over! It's definitely a cool idea.

This is definitely not "just" for favor. SO needs a nerf, and this one is interesting, and can be balanced well.

Hmm, out-of-combat effects are generally not a meaningful nerf for something powerful. I mean, it's a question of degrees, of course - if the out-of-combat effect was to increase its maintenance cost by a factor of 10, then, ok. But if we're talking about a reasonable-sounding crew casualties increase, for SO that's not going to be a very meaningful balancing factor.

Just make weapon and engine repair increase CR loss

[6chad.noirlee9]

i like the repair increases cr loss idea

[Anvel]

Leave SO alone already, it's ok and doesn't need to be nerfed further.

[6chad.noirlee9]

im just trying to figure out a way to make it where you could have it built in again

[Megas]

Leave SO alone already, it's ok and doesn't need to be nerfed further.

I approve this message!

[jRivers]

I rarely use it in a combat ship, if i use it it's either in a civilian ship for faster retreats or rarely in a strike frigate that is already fast to allow quicker strikes.

[Deshara]

I rarely use it in a combat ship, if i use it it's either in a civilian ship for faster retreats or rarely in a strike frigate that is already fast to allow quicker strikes.

same. in my modded playthrus, if i have a mod that gives a hullmod that increases the zero flux boost bonus or gives it all the time, then i never use SO.
Any ship that has enough peak time to spare, then I'm relying on it having such a high peak time for long fights -- and probably it can't afford to spare the range. And any ship that doesn't have enough peak time for me to be relying on it for long fights, doesn't have enough peak time to spare -- and it definitely can't afford to lose weapon range.
If SO was broken into two hullmods, one that gives speed but reduces weapons range and one that increases flux & allows hard flux dissipation with shields on but reduces peak operating time, or one that gives speed but reduces peak operating time and one that increases flux & allows hard flux dissipation with shields on but reduces weapons range, I'd use them. But there's just no ship that isn't ruined by having all of those drawbacks.

[Kloranthy]

I rarely use it in a combat ship, if i use it it's either in a civilian ship for faster retreats or rarely in a strike frigate that is already fast to allow quicker strikes.

same. in my modded playthrus, if i have a mod that gives a hullmod that increases the zero flux boost bonus or gives it all the time, then i never use SO.
Any ship that has enough peak time to spare, then I'm relying on it having such a high peak time for long fights -- and probably it can't afford to spare the range. And any ship that doesn't have enough peak time for me to be relying on it for long fights, doesn't have enough peak time to spare -- and it definitely can't afford to lose weapon range.
If SO was broken into two hullmods, one that gives speed but reduces weapons range and one that increases flux & allows hard flux dissipation with shields on but reduces peak operating time, or one that gives speed but reduces peak operating time and one that increases flux & allows hard flux dissipation with shields on but reduces weapons range, I'd use them. But there's just no ship that isn't ruined by having all of those drawbacks.

we already have unstable injector providing speed at the cost of reduced range.
maybe unstable injector could get amped up from a small speed boost and range reduction to SO levels of boost/reduction and those effects removed from SO?

[intrinsic_parity]

Wait, people think SO is bad? SO is busted strong. There's a reason the drawbacks are so harsh, 2x dissipation is basically double the sustained firepower, which also means you win the flux war much more easily and kill things super quick. Any ship with good mobility is very good with SO. I have trouble finding a reason to not use SO on my flagship until very late in the game, and I have to do challenge runs where I restrict myself from using it to make the early game less trivial.

[Deshara]

right, but, if SO were broken up in 2 or 3 hullmods, how many times would you use all of them on the same ship? thats the thing i run into so often.
there's a lot of builds i would put some of SO onto, but almost never do i want all of it, so i dont use it bc all of the drawbacks are only worth it if you want all of the upsides.
if you only want 1 upside then getting all 4 drawbacks just doesnt sit right in my brain.

its like  how do i put this. its like your car's tired busted, so you buy a car just to pull the tires off of it to put on your other car. like, nobody would do that. the only time you'd buy a car is if you want a whole car, and if you only need part of a car then ur not gonna buy a whole car to get that part.
SO is too much car for me, if I wanted to put SO onto a destroyer for the speed boost i'd just field a frigate instead, if i wanted to put SO onto a frigate to make it stand up in a fight better i'd just field a destroyer.