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Author Topic: Skill Changes, Part 2  (Read 24396 times)

Deshara

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #165 on: July 19, 2021, 04:35:59 PM »

Well for A: AI core officers have an aggression level above reckless, exclusive to them.

they actually dont. if you read the AI captain's tooltip it explicitly points out that it's just a reckless stance. The only difference is the enemy commander doesn't call for a general retreat when the fleet is defeated
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Gothars

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #166 on: July 19, 2021, 05:15:24 PM »

I really like the changes, looking forward to trying out a bunch of new playstiles with the next update! That we now can completely respec will make it so much easier, thank you for your work on that, Alex!

One thing I'm wondering (maybe it was already answered): will the elite skills stay as cheap as they are, just one SP? At the moment they are absolute no-brainers to pick, and now they will be even better. I was expecting them to double in cost each time you pick one, or something...

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Alex

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #167 on: July 19, 2021, 05:48:30 PM »

I really like the changes, looking forward to trying out a bunch of new playstiles with the next update! That we now can completely respec will make it so much easier, thank you for your work on that, Alex!

(I don't mind saying, that was a right pain! So, glad to hear feedback in the vein of it being worth it.)

One thing I'm wondering (maybe it was already answered): will the elite skills stay as cheap as they are, just one SP? At the moment they are absolute no-brainers to pick, and now they will be even better. I was expecting them to double in cost each time you pick one, or something...

They will, yeah - the point, more or less, is to make you feel like you're better than your officers at piloting, but in a way that feels a bit "earned" because you had to spend a point on it. "Whether to pick a given elite skill" isn't meant to be a choice, really.
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #168 on: July 19, 2021, 07:41:18 PM »

I think this came up earlier in the Part 1 thread - it's an interesting idea, but I think it'd make you feel forced to use ships with fighters just to make the most out of the bonuses. And that'd likely be the "optimal" way to go.
What about fleet skills instead of piloted ship skills for that purpose? There's no forced assigning this way.
We already have two, why not make it three?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 07:43:22 PM by SonnaBanana »
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Ericus

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #169 on: July 20, 2021, 12:39:40 AM »


Would it be possible to have officers placed 'in reserve' (unusable and you pay their salary but they are not removed or altered) if the skill is respecced out of? Also, the same thing for ships with s-mods (CR is set to 0) would be nice.

Hmm - things are really not set up for doing that easily, unfortunately.


This is really too bad and I really wish a future development would allow us to use them in colonies, or even store them in a flight school or something.
I have this Harbinger pilot that stayed with me since I began my campaign. At some point, when I will switch to using a doom myself, this dude will have to go. And I got really attached to the persona of this officer.

When colonies get reworked somehow, having the ability to keep some officers in reserve sounds like a genuinely necessary feature to have in the game.
Not only for being able to field various fleet configurations, but also simply because as a player, I get attached to the characters.
Fingers crossed.
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rabbistern

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #170 on: July 20, 2021, 01:01:03 AM »

Hmm - I'm not actually sure that buffing hull values would help *that* much. It's useful, right, but if a ship is in a bad way - armor cracked and being shot at by multiple enemies - chances are most of its weapons are disabled, maybe even its engines, and it's not in a position to fight back. So more hull is kind of delaying the inevitable. And, yeah, it would sometimes buy enough time for a friendly ship to come to the rescue. But if the bad spot the ship got into is representative of how the battle is going, then more hull probably isn't going to help very much.
just seems like something industry-ish to me. we have hullmods like RFC and ARU which are kind of dead weight atm as as youve said yourself, "hulltanking" is a ship already on the death bed. the addition of skills in industry giving extra CR (mimicking HS) less crew losses (RS) and extra HP (insulated engines and bulkheads and what not) and now the new flux impoving skills already play into levying the OP-taxes of some of these hullmods, so perhaps investing more skill points into something that would increase the effects and cheapen the op costs of hullmods which precisely are there to mitigate these issues such as ARU for example would just about make it worth the build investment, idk
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SCC

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #171 on: July 20, 2021, 05:50:57 AM »

It would be nice, if the most damage a single hyperspace storm hit or any other instant damage event could do was capped at 70%. It would mean that if you get more, it's useful even in the campaign, and it prevents high CR from having those weird downsides to it.

Sutopia

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #172 on: July 20, 2021, 06:57:15 AM »

A weird stray question, how hard would it be to make officers be cargo items?
Just like Alpha cores are commodities, make officers sit in cargo hold as well.
Add attributes to the item as their skills.
That way a player can freely put away officers not needed now and get them back later.
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #173 on: July 20, 2021, 06:58:10 AM »

A weird stray question, how hard would it be to make officers be cargo items?
Just like Alpha cores are commodities, make officers sit in cargo hold as well.
Add attributes to the item as their skills.
That way a player can freely put away officers not needed now and get them back later.
That would allow the player to change officer personality and skills at will at no price whatsoever.
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Sutopia

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #174 on: July 20, 2021, 07:44:45 AM »

A weird stray question, how hard would it be to make officers be cargo items?
Just like Alpha cores are commodities, make officers sit in cargo hold as well.
Add attributes to the item as their skills.
That way a player can freely put away officers not needed now and get them back later.
That would allow the player to change officer personality and skills at will at no price whatsoever.
Have you heard of Shulker Box?
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lili

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #175 on: July 20, 2021, 08:09:37 AM »

Hello, Alex! :)
After reading the new blog Skill Changes, Part 2
It feels like the new skill system is going to make every offiicer and ship even more special!
After the epic 0.95 update, I'm hooked on the new story point mechanics and skill changes
I've had the pleasure and excitement of conceiving builds for almost every ship I've encountered that I couldn't do before
With so many possibilities, I'm stuck with a choice dilemma
I became cautious about the choice of ship skill lieutenants, which left me torn
I put a lot of story points into ships and officers, but the process is irreversible and I have to do it to match those late powerful enemies
Is it possible to switch my fleet build during my campaigh, like changing decks. So I can experience several different styles of fleets and tactics in one save for the same number of story points! Also I can more easily export my current fleet builds and loadouts for sharing and discussion? ;D

The above content is from machine translation
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scrye

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #176 on: July 20, 2021, 12:56:30 PM »

I’m pretty keen on the new changes, I think the current skill system is decent but I agree that some of the binary choices feel a lot more arbitrary or even a bit contrived than they need to be.  Binning them a bit more loosely per tier feels better.  I am very interested to try the “neural link” perk in particular as well!  Two buffed ships and more battlefield flexibility sounds like a really fun option for wolfpack play throughs of the sort I tend to enjoy (emphasis on frigates and destroyers with swarm tactics).
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Brainwright

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #177 on: July 20, 2021, 01:40:55 PM »

Hmm - I'm not actually sure that buffing hull values would help *that* much. It's useful, right, but if a ship is in a bad way - armor cracked and being shot at by multiple enemies - chances are most of its weapons are disabled, maybe even its engines, and it's not in a position to fight back. So more hull is kind of delaying the inevitable. And, yeah, it would sometimes buy enough time for a friendly ship to come to the rescue. But if the bad spot the ship got into is representative of how the battle is going, then more hull probably isn't going to help very much.

I find that better hull is valuable for fast ships that can evade well, like phase ships.  Armor never lasts since so much breaks it, and better shields don't matter if you only zip in and out anyway, but more hull pads you against mistakes that may have otherwise been crippling.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #178 on: July 20, 2021, 01:44:18 PM »

Armor is effectively extra hull because of minimum armor mechanics. That's a huge part of the value of armor IMO, it's as much about the reduction in hull damage due to residual armor as the actual raw armor numbers and damage absorption.
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Sutopia

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Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #179 on: July 20, 2021, 02:10:07 PM »

I find that better hull is valuable for fast ships that can evade well, like phase ships.  Armor never lasts since so much breaks it, and better shields don't matter if you only zip in and out anyway, but more hull pads you against mistakes that may have otherwise been crippling.

https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12268
FYI.

Armor is extremely effective at mitigating low damage hits.
It’s especially obvious against low dph ballistic weapons and kinetic damage weapons.
For instance, sabot has 100 hit strength on armor. An odyssey (1000) can mitigate 33% of its damage on hull but if you put a heavy armor it can now mitigate 43%.
Also part of the reason why current derelict contingent Venture so OP.
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