Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 15

Author Topic: Skill Changes, Part 2  (Read 24797 times)

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 24114
    • View Profile
Skill Changes, Part 2
« on: July 15, 2021, 02:17:28 PM »

Blog post here.
Logged

Kohlenstoff

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 198
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2021, 02:34:44 PM »

Sounds great. Especially the respec solutions for permanents are great!!!! So im not fixed on one spec anymore.

Morrokain

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2143
  • Megalith Dreadnought - Archean Order
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2021, 02:48:28 PM »

I definitely like the thought process I am seeing here! I think skills are going to be in a much better place after all of these changes.

A few questions:

 - How does the new phase mechanics impact the AI from what you've seen? We have a fairly competent phase AI at the moment, imo, and I'm slightly concerned that the slower speed is going to revert phase ships back to being overly timid since the time to get to the target is longer - so there is more opportunity for the ship AI to go "oh crap I'm in trouble better start retreating" except now that is harder too. Have they been made even more aggressive to compensate for this? Or are they otherwise more willing to use their armor to tank in order to get damage in since that value is higher?

 - Is it possible that admins could just have skills (similar to cores) that the player doesn't have access to? Please forgive my ignorance, but what would a 0 skill admin do, exactly? I was under the impression the skills were the main point but I haven't played around with colonies all that much and I'm a bit unfamiliar with the mechanics other than the general stuff.

 - How are these changes reflected under the hood? Is there now just a section for the number of skill points required per tier in the JSON, or is this stuff hardcoded in the skill line itself - since it varies from skill line to skill line?

*EDIT*

I also 100% agree that the colony skills for the player are probably better off removed until colonies have a more solidified role in the overall campaign rig. I think that was a good call. So too was the combination of Phase Master and Shield Modulation.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 02:51:31 PM by Morrokain »
Logged

Sozzer

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2021, 02:48:37 PM »

mm. Not sure how I feel about the phase speed thing.
On one hand, it's good to have a balancing aspect to make overextending matter more, since they just don't have any consequence to it as it stands unless you well and truly blow it out. But on the other, it feels like it may make them a lot less enjoyable to play.
Sure, they're still effective. And externally they're still just as fast.
But if you're piloting one and you're gradually taken down to 1/3rd the speed your ship normally has, I'm concerned it might feel as crippling as when engines blow out and you're left limping along at a fraction of the speed you were working with a moment prior, which could easily both discourage engaging and, as mentioned, simply make it feel very slow and "boring" to pilot.
Logged

Zuthal

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2021, 02:49:35 PM »

Quote
The one issue is the Phase Anchor hullmod (the one that makes the ship slower, but with a higher phase-time multiplier) – the ship just feels too slow to fly, and the extra time multiplier doesn’t feel like enough to make up for it.

Yes. Going from 1x speed at 3x time flow to 0.5x speed at 4x timeflow is an effective speed reduction by 1/3 (3x "outside" speed vs 2x "outside" speed at zero hard flux), while with phase coil tuning and phase anchor, a ship is just as fast while phased as a phase ship without the hullmod or skill.

If you wanted the hullmod to have zero effect on "outside" speed while phased, it'd need to only do a 25% speed reduction while phased (0.75*4=3), but I do not know if that would be a good design goal or not.
Logged

intrinsic_parity

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3071
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2021, 02:50:44 PM »

Would it be possible to have officers placed 'in reserve' (unusable and you pay their salary but they are not removed or altered) if the skill is respecced out of? Also, the same thing for ships with s-mods (CR is set to 0) would be nice.

It will also be interesting to see how the phase mechanics play out. It seems like there are a ton of bonuses now that might offset the changes and not actually weaken phase ships.
Logged

Sutopia

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1005
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2021, 02:54:52 PM »

Phase anchor sound really weird to me. It makes phase ship impossible to escape and tick down PPT much faster. It sounds like ... uh... bad life decisions.
The main purpose of this hullmod is for brawling phase ships right?
How about let a phase ship vent hard flux prior to soft flux when unphased? (Is it possible?)
Logged


Since all my mods have poor reputation, I deem my efforts unworthy thus no more updates will be made.

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7214
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2021, 03:13:44 PM »

Oh me oh my flat bonuses for speed and dissipation! Ballistic weapon mastery and hull regeneration! Be still my low tech heart! There's a lot of stuff to dig into here. A few specific thing (I'm sure I'll have more later :D):

For Polarized Armor, I see that part of it is hard flux only so doesn't work for unshielded ships unless they have other ways to drive up hard flux. Good for phase ships! Would a converted shield shunt ship have something?

For Ballistic Mastery, it has a great shot speed bonus. Is the recoil reduction still part of gunnery implants? That to me is the other half of the ballistic gun skill buffs.

For the previously unremovable skills that can now be respecced: I absolutely think this is the right call in terms of the design of the skill system, but my god does the backend work you put in look like a pita. Thanks!
Logged

RustyCabbage

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2021, 03:13:50 PM »

Autofit improvements are :heart_eyes: (as is the rest of the post, of course!)

I think the only thing I'm particularly hesitant about is the max speed reduction of Phase Anchor (though you've mentioned it yourself) which sounds a bit excessive at -50% speed. It feels like it's going to be in the same ballpark as High Scatter Amplifier - a relatively costly hullmod with significant downsides that outweigh its benefit). I haven't really found a good use for HSA and I sort of have the feeling that as-is I likely wouldn't bother with Phase Anchor either.

Other random thoughts
- ooh, the Neural Link status info icon is pretty
- what are the costs of the Neutral Link/Integrator hullmods? Is it going to be an easy choice to s-mod the latter? :P
- unmentioned in the blog post but I kind of want to complain that Point Defense's +100% damage against fighters is rather extreme (granted I'm not a big fan of very high damage multipliers in general - I like things in Ballistic Mastery's ballpark of +10% more than Energy Weapon Mastery/Ranged Specialization's +30%, albeit conditional)
- feels a bit strange that the Phase Coil Tuning fluff is a Brother Cotton quote, but it's a good line.
- Ordnance Expertise is going to like 1.5x the Onslaught's base flux dissipation and I am so for it

IonDragonX

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 816
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2021, 03:18:51 PM »

One lone colony skill? Hmm...
Logged

Sutopia

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1005
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2021, 03:24:01 PM »

- what are the costs of the Neutral Link/Integrator hullmods? Is it going to be an easy choice to s-mod the latter? :P
They cannot be built in :p
Logged


Since all my mods have poor reputation, I deem my efforts unworthy thus no more updates will be made.

Great Wound

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 278
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2021, 03:28:41 PM »

Ballistic Mastery:
+10% Ballistic Weapon Range
+10% Ballistic Weapon Damage
+50% Ballistic Projectile Velocity

Dakka:

+10% Ballistic Weapon Range
+10% Ballistic Weapon Damage
+25% Projectile Velocity
+10% Ballistic Weapon RoF

So close! When this update it out I'll be amending the projectile velocity to Ballistic only (that was the original intent) and let the insanity stack!
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 03:30:29 PM by Great Wound »
Logged

Dal

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2021, 03:38:02 PM »

The good: I like the removal of colony skills, and Field Manipulation is a great roll-together.
The bad: Combat endurance is imo forgettable (PPT is *really* generic/binary/boring when it's all in one place), and I think Ballistic Mastery looks very OP (effective damage application through the roof!).
The fuzzy: Phase ships are probably cut out of any large battle because they'd eat all the attrition while retreating, but being pushed out from that environment may not be a bad thing. I'm not sure this address their strengths/weakness (hyper-impactful ship systems) directly, and that may not resolve their balance problems in smaller engagements.

Quote from: Blog
Admins, officers, NPCs, etc will all have their old skills converted to new equivalents/best matches, as appropriate
How will this handle officers with non-vanilla skills at the time of the patch?
Logged

AcaMetis

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2021, 03:38:14 PM »

Quote
Combat Endurance brings back the “repair ship hull during combat” effect from several versions ago – repairs up to 25% of the hull level, with total repairs not exceeding the higher of 50% of the hull, or, as of right now, 2000 points.
Is that base hull or modified hull? Basically if I have a Sunder (4000 hull) with Reinforced Bulkheads (+40% hull, from 4K to 5600) will that effect cap at 2000 (50% of 4K/2K, whichever) or 2800 (50% of 5600)?

Quote
Damage Control’s elite effect grants a reduction to large hull hits – any hull hit above a certain threshold of damage has the portion above the threshold reduced by (again, as of right now) 60%. No-one plans on being hit by a Reaper torpedo, but still, neutralizing that much damage when things go wrong is going to have a lot of appeal. To make the skill not completely neutralize the strike potential of certain weapons, this effect only triggers at most once every two seconds.
I still think this is too much of a kick in the teeth to those types of finisher weapons. Reapers especially exist to do a ton of single hit damage, with this skill turning that into a gamble (does any given officered ship have this skill yes/no?) there's not much argument I can think of to take a Reaper over a Hammer.

Quote
A new personal-combat skill in Industry, this is a fun one – it boosts flux dissipation (and capacity, as an elite effect) based on the number of ordnance points spent on weapons.
Just to clarify, is this based off of the base OP cost of a weapon or the actual cost that any given weapon takes to equip? Basically did the Onslaught/Conquest and their Heavy Ballistic Integration get put on stage to be laughed at by the High Tech audience again ::).

Quote
Alpha Cores – which you can install as colony administrators – also get Industrial Planning. In addition, they also get a unique “Hypercognition” skill that confers some of the benefits of the previous colony skills.
That does answer the question of "how is my vagabond wanderer of a captain able to do the work of multiple Alpha cores simultaneously from the other side of known space". How rare are these new skilled admins, compared to how hunting down a decent admin was such a pain previously?

Quote
Adaptive Phase Coils increase the hard flux level at which speed bottoms out to 75%. This, naturally, facilitates an “assassin” type of build. Phase Anchor increases time time multiplier to 4x, but reduces the ship’s speed while phased by half – this is good for the “brawling” style.
While a good idea on paper these new hullmods very much feel like "mandatory OP tax" territory, depending on what type of build you're going with. Than again with hull and armor increased across the board you can maybe forgo Heavy Armor, noted king of OP costs and prime S-Mod candidacy, so perhaps it all balances out. Still curious, though: What is the OP cost of these new hullmods?

Quote
*Bunch of "combat phase ships" in skill descriptions*
Did the two new logistics phase ships get civilian tags, or will they still cripple this skill if you try to go full phase raiding party?

Quote
*Phase ship sensor changes*
;D

Quote
Even though the Radiant had its deployment points cost increased (to account for powerful it is in player fleets, especially now that it can be controlled directly with a Neural Link), they might be overall more difficult to face just due to how consistently deadly they are.

With the test conditions established, I played a lot. (You don’t want to know how much I got wrecked by these, you really don’t. More to the point, I don’t want to talk about it.)
Right, because of how powerful it is in player fleets. Not because it has better stats and guns than a Paragon along with the mobility system of a Wolf, but because a player is now able to control it. That is why it's worth 60DP.

The resulting wrecking ball after making sure they consistently had decent guns was...not unexpected ;).

Quote
That can no longer be installed on automated ships – instead, there’s a new “Neural Integrator” hullmod which is functionally identical and just costs a pile more ordnance points, especially for capital ships.
Disappointing, although I do agree with this being a better solution than gutting either the Radiant or the whole Neural Link mechanic entirely.
Logged

Alexis Incarnadine

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Changes, Part 2
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2021, 03:44:52 PM »

Everything combat/ship related sounds fascinating! Concerning the colony skills being effectively removed though: What about coming up with some quick back of the napkin administrator-only skills? Surely there's some possibilities there?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 15