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[Deshara]

is it just cuz the AI doesnt know how to use it? but then why isnt it marked as system so it doesnt show up in missions? its the only weapon in the game marked as no_drop. its weird, makes me curious.

IVE GOTTEN DISTRACTED TRYING TO TEST THE BOMB BAY, BUT THE POINT OF THIS POST IS STILL TO ASK WHY IS IT AVAILABLE IN MISSIONS

me troubleshooting them

edit: i just slapped them on the venture & simmed it vs an atlas & it seems to know how to use them, it fired them off as it approached the atlas the way you'd expect if it knew how to use them

edit edit: nvm I hit unpause & the venture stopped & started backing away from the atlas & kept firing its bomb which had its backwards momentum & would never reach the atlas. It seems to know how to use the proximity launcher tho so Im considering copy/pasting the proximity launcher's behaviors over the bomb bays' & adding them back into the campaign mode. still doesnt answer the question of why they're set to not show up in campaign but do show up in missions

edit edit edit: actually i might have been speaking too soon when I said the proximity launcher seems to work just fine. Tested it them on a Doom against a mothership & it missed most shots, which might have been bc of module/size wonkiness so I activated the leading pip mod & tested it against an atlas with CR set to 100% & the PD mod (since prox counts as PD) and it still missed most of its shots after the initial approach. The AI (and the leading pip tbf) dont seem to understand at all the concept of aiming a weapon with its momentum, which tbf isnt really that much of news.
editediteditedit: against an atlas it missed a lot with mortars, but against berzerker it seemed to do fine, only firing the mortar whose firing envelope was near the pip (which was odd as i had set them to linked & im 99% sure when I set missiles to linked it will fire all racks even when only 1 is on course...) So apparently size does muck up the AI's aim

edit*5: the doom kept killing the berzerker so i switched to an afflictor with 4 bomb bays. Aside from the fact that the afflictor just circles the berzeker (which only has MG's & mortars) at 900 range, I was able to confirm that the AI and the autofire only fires the bombs off when its firing envelopes are pointing at the leading pip, but without any regard to velocity -- I held C until I wasnt moving & the autofire still emptied the racks, same when I backed away from the berzerker in a straight line. If I get out to max bomb range, then fly past the berzerker and then spin from facing foward to facing backwards the bays will fire bombs going completely parallel to the zerker's path

edit: i slapped prox on a vigilance when it gets into a circling pattern of the berzerker with its nose pointed straight at it & the leading pip somewhere far on the side of the map it will keep firing its charges even though they go perpendicular & without waiting to fire until its firing envelope lines up with the leading pip, which -- yeah, same thing it does with the bombs on the afflictor. So the game just doesnt account for momentum at all. which makes me wonder...

edit: yeah, no, the afflictor with 4 mortars doesnt do that. it'll circle the zerker but while it's doing so it doesnt fire, then when it goes in (still with its firing envelopes over the zerker) it keeps not-firing until the leading pip passes over the firing envelopes at which point it fires each once and then stop when the firing envelope shoots offscreen bc of its maneuvering. So it appears to be an issue with missile-designated weapons specifically

edit: i removed the strike and bomb tags from the bomb bay & now it fires them when its firing arcs overlap the firing pip and not when its firing arcs overlap the enemy, which fixes their lateral aiming problem but not the medial aiming problem

edit: okay so same sit but with mortars, it behaves the exact same way, but they hit bc the ship gets closer to use them & the projectiles have enough speed to counteract the ship's. so it looks like the actual problem problem with bombs is that unless the ship using it is hard-coded to use burn drive when it starts firing them (which is basically what piranas do), its range needs to scale down along with its projectile speed. Im gonna mod the bomb bay to have the same range/speed ratio as the mortar. will report back

edit: IT DID IT!!!! I got an AI afflictor to kill a derelict using nothing but bomb bays by adjusting its tags & its AI range!!!!! It was really bad at it & literally got it with its last bomb, but IT DID IT!!!!!

edit: I fiddled with the numbers; i dropped the range by another 50% & it wasnt able to fire them bc it just couldnt get close enough, and I raised it by 50% and it couldnt aim them anymore. Looks like the mortar ratio is ideal I tried the same thing with the dominator to see if it'd work on that but the problem is that if it closed to hit the target with bombs, the bombs wouldn't get out from on top of the dominator before it just physically ran into the target & pushed it out of the way, reducing the amount of landed bombs to too few to kill a zerker before it ran out. Obviously not a problem for bombers, but it is an issue for ships. The proximity launcher doesnt seem to suffer the same issue, as it launches the charges forward before they go slower(?) than they were launched, but bc of their range being way over the mortar ratio, a dominator with 3 prox launchers cant land any bc of it. Im gonna leave the realm of just adjusting AI range & tags, see what happens if I give the bomb launcher an initial shove like the prox launcher has just to get it off of the ship that fired it

[close]

[intrinsic_parity]

AFAIK, it's not possible to acquire a bomb bay as a weapon in vanilla (doesn't get used on any ship variants, doesn't get sold or drop as loot anywhere). It just exists to be used on the piranha where the fighter AI can properly use it. The ship AI has not been taught to use it.

[Deshara]

AFAIK, it's not possible to acquire a bomb bay as a weapon in vanilla (doesn't get used on any ship variants, doesn't get sold or drop as loot anywhere). It just exists to be used on the piranha where the fighter AI can properly use it. The ship AI has not been taught to use it.

well the question isnt why is the weapon not availble in campaign, its why is the weapon available in missions. & apparently is not true that the AI cant use it, it just looks like it has the wrong hint tags. Im modding it to test if I can fix it using vanilla code rn

[intrinsic_parity]

well the question isnt why is the weapon not availble in campaign, its why is the weapon available in missions. & apparently is not true that the AI cant use it, it just looks like it has the wrong hint tags. Im modding it to test if I can fix it using vanilla code rn

I think that's an oversight and it's not intended to be used on ships. I'm not sure of that, but it certainly seems that way. If you want to make a mod to change that, there's nothing wrong with that.

[SCC]

1. Alex got it not to spawn some other way
2. "If it works, don't fix it"

[Pratapon51]

It used to be freely available to ships and you could make frigate-sized bombing runs on a Lasher. 

[Retry]

I recall occasionally receiving bomb bays in the campaign in 0.91 from station loot... somehow.  Haven't gotten any in 0.95 (yet) but I wouldn't see a problem standardizing the method with a SYSTEM tag, just in case.

[Deshara]

I recall occasionally receiving bomb bays in the campaign in 0.91 from station loot... somehow.  Haven't gotten any in 0.95 (yet) but I wouldn't see a problem standardizing the method with a SYSTEM tag, just in case.

thats what i would do, but then i decided thats boring & I wanna make them useable by the AI then change their mount to missiles so I can see kite bombing runs