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Author Topic: Reverse engineering.  (Read 4383 times)

AdmiralRem

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Reverse engineering.
« on: July 05, 2021, 06:20:04 AM »

Using tech mining to be able to reverse engineer things since it has no purpose after a few months. It would also be nice as an end game option for those things you just can’t find blueprints for. Making it extremely expensive so as not to replace finding blueprints. I just find it very frustrating finding 6 of the same blueprints and none of the ones you want….
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Deshara

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2021, 06:48:56 AM »

thats an industry in the industrial evolution mod if u want it. its a must-have for me; i dont like scrapping rare ships that I can salvage without a story point, but i also dont like consigning them to storage if they don't fit the fleet I'm running. Having an engineering bay industry I can jam them into to be consumed & eventually overridden onto a blueprint that was useless to me not only gives me a hole to throw rare hulls I dont want to waste into, but also for blueprints that arent worth the money to sell, and on top of both of those I am in the end left with an incredibly valueable rare blueprint chip I can feel good about selling
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Sutopia

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2021, 07:01:57 AM »

Lore wise it’s impossible to reverse engineer. Just look at China cannot even successfully reverse engineer 7nm micro processors, now imagine the difficulty of reverse engineer something from much more advanced civilization with only modern tools.
If it’s that easy to reverse engineer everyone would have been doing it and gate shutting down would not be referred to as “The Collapse”.
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AdmiralRem

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2021, 07:12:35 AM »

Lore wise it’s impossible to reverse engineer. Just look at China cannot even successfully reverse engineer 7nm micro processors, now imagine the difficulty of reverse engineer something from much more advanced civilization with only modern tools.
If it’s that easy to reverse engineer everyone would have been doing it and gate shutting down would not be referred to as “The Collapse”.

Personally I don't care much about the lore (I don't think the game does a great job at directing you through it) but there are plenty of reasons you could come up with why they haven't and or cant. Like a colony item that lets you do it. Faction X doesn't have the revenue for it. They are against it. The "more advanced" items are harder to reverse engineer. I don't know that was 30 seconds of thinking so I'm sure someone could do better :)
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AdmiralRem

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2021, 07:13:15 AM »

thats an industry in the industrial evolution mod if u want it. its a must-have for me; i dont like scrapping rare ships that I can salvage without a story point, but i also dont like consigning them to storage if they don't fit the fleet I'm running. Having an engineering bay industry I can jam them into to be consumed & eventually overridden onto a blueprint that was useless to me not only gives me a hole to throw rare hulls I dont want to waste into, but also for blueprints that arent worth the money to sell, and on top of both of those I am in the end left with an incredibly valueable rare blueprint chip I can feel good about selling

I've seen the mod ill have to take another look because that sounds pretty neato.
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Yunru

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2021, 07:49:12 AM »

Personally I'd rather they reduced what Techmining gives you, but simply not have it degrade.

Ramiel

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2021, 09:26:02 AM »

Industrial evolution - it's one of those "must have" mods.
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Helldiver

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2021, 10:10:07 AM »

+1 on this, "tech mining" alone does a very poor job of implementing researching unknown technologies as part of the game.

Industrial Evolution has this wonderful addition of "Engineering Hubs" as a structure where ships can be left to be deconstructed to gain knowledge until their blueprints can be re-created. Besides not having to chase for an unknown amount of time after a "low tech blueprint package" just to be able to craft commonly encountered ships like Enforcers, it gives value to dragging rare mothballed ships to a colony - you get giddy on the way back knowing you've got the last ship needed for a blueprint of something precious.
But this kind of essential feature shouldn't require a mod.
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SCC

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2021, 10:28:33 AM »

The thing you should convince Alex of isn't a way to get all blueprints, but that getting all blueprints is necessary.
And besides, you can always raid factions to get their blueprints and they know nearly all the available ships.

Sutopia

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2021, 10:46:07 AM »

I guess people here have never played pre .9 versions when custom order ship was not a thing and you work with whatever you can obtain.

It’s fundamentally missing expectation and misunderstanding of game design goal. Player can get all blueprints but it definitely shouldn’t be the baseline.
For older players, the ability to custom order ship is already too much and makes the game very easy, comparing to old days when you can only salvage or get commissioned and purchase in military markets. I myself is happy to work with any blueprint I can find, and if I want a specific blueprint I can always raid for it. There is no reason why reverse engineer need to be a thing.

I don’t understand the relationship between tech mining and reverse engineer tbh. It’s mostly referring to archeology activities that looks for relics of domain technology, as suggested by lore.
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AdmiralRem

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2021, 11:06:29 AM »

I guess people here have never played pre .9 versions when custom order ship was not a thing and you work with whatever you can obtain.

It’s fundamentally missing expectation and misunderstanding of game design goal. Player can get all blueprints but it definitely shouldn’t be the baseline.
For older players, the ability to custom order ship is already too much and makes the game very easy, comparing to old days when you can only salvage or get commissioned and purchase in military markets. I myself is happy to work with any blueprint I can find, and if I want a specific blueprint I can always raid for it. There is no reason why reverse engineer need to be a thing.

I don’t understand the relationship between tech mining and reverse engineer tbh. It’s mostly referring to archeology activities that looks for relics of domain technology, as suggested by lore.

The point of a sandbox game (which I believe this is being toted as) is to be able to play as one wants (for the most part) and me referencing tech mining was just to give it some purpose past like 3 months of use…
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Sutopia

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2021, 11:21:32 AM »

The point of a sandbox game (which I believe this is being toted as) is to be able to play as one wants (for the most part) and me referencing tech mining was just to give it some purpose past like 3 months of use…

Playing the game as one wants is totally different from changing the rules as one wants. Asking for reverse engineering is just about the same as asking ender dragon to spawn in overworld or able to pour water in the nether. A sandbox game is about setting your own goal within the given frame (thus there is a box), not nuclear fusion the sand into diamonds.
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Helldiver

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2021, 11:31:06 AM »

I don’t understand the relationship between tech mining and reverse engineer tbh.

It does a similar thing (get BPs) except reverse engineering does it in an interesting, gameplay-oriented manner where you need to find and bring back multiple target ships to a colony with the structure (and D-mods influence gained knowledge), while tech mining is just RNG with zero interaction where you plop an industry and it produces some random stuff that dries out.

It's also not about making obtaining things "easier". If anything I'd vote for the game to be far harder (even with Ruthless Sector+Starpocalypse+Nex Starfarer mode+personal additions and IM the game is a cakewalk).
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 11:36:14 AM by Helldiver »
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Sutopia

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2021, 11:35:53 AM »

I don’t understand the relationship between tech mining and reverse engineer tbh.

It does a similar thing (get BPs) except reverse engineering does it in an interesting, gameplay-oriented manner where you need to find and bring back multiple target ships to a colony with the structure (and D-mods influence gained knowledge), while tech mining is just RNG with zero interaction where you plop an industry and it produces some random stuff that dries out.
So burning hydrogen is similar to melting ice? According to your logic both gets water as a result so they should be similar. Of course burning hydrogen is much more interesting.

On top of that, does any vanilla industry require any interaction after you build them? Tech mining is probably the only one that a player need to actually decide when to demolish it after losing value, which is the de facto most engaging industry in vanilla.
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SCC

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Re: Reverse engineering.
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2021, 11:36:41 AM »

Alex, you could make tech-mining work similarly - instead of mining stuff locally, the player could get beacons from it and take them to planets with ruins and have tech-mining explore them in a similar manner as to how it currently works, but with added payment for exploring the ruins in depth, that scales with the distance from the closest tech mine and the hazard rating of the planet you want searched.
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