Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: [REDACTED] system spread  (Read 643 times)

FooF

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1389
    • View Profile
[REDACTED] system spread
« on: June 27, 2021, 12:27:31 PM »

Another thread got me thinking about "upgrading" the phenomenon of Pirate/Pather incursions both against player colonies and against the Core Worlds themselves.

The Issue:

I don't consider it an "issue" per se, but the fact that Pirates effectively fulfill the role of the Bogeyman to the Core Worlds just seems a bit of a bridge too far. Pirates/Pathers are disorganized, they use third-rate tech, they die in droves and they seem to be endless. To be fair, the game needs a universal foe like this because it creates unlimited opportunity for fighting, it gives the player a "chaff" enemy to practice/level up on, and generally speaking, there's no serious moral implications for tracking down spacers, thieves, and bandits. It's win-win for all involved.

However, as the linked thread points out, Pirates/Pathers are much more akin to what Megas aptly calls a "zombie horde" that you'd rather put down for good than put up with. The problem is that, as mentioned, the game needs an endless threat that is both universally reviled and there are no moral implications to destroying them en masse. So, I'm not implying that the Pirates/Pathers ever "go away," whether through some kind of scorched-Earth sat bombing campaign or mission-driven reward (i.e. killing Kanta or somesuch) but rather their role as the Bogeyman slowly gets replaced with something that is both more in-universe threatening and more in-universe logical as an unending "zombie horde."

Fortunately, the game already has this: the Remnants.

Suggestion:

Remnant systems "migrate/spread" to nearby systems after a certain point in the game (entirely player-driven and perhaps entirely optional). Whereas Pirate/Pather systems literally spring into existence from nothing at periodic times, Remnant systems would "awaken" after some specific circumstances and begin "infecting" systems around them. The rate, modus operandi of spread, etc. is all up for debate but the ultimate goal would for the Sector to slowly be overrun by the Remnants and they would be the ones sending unending hordes of AI ships into the Core Worlds, against the Player colonies, etc. Not only would they be a legitimate threat but their unending numbers makes way more sense than seeing Pirates die by what appears to be by the tens of thousands (in a Sector that has fewer people than Earth today!)

What I believe this opens up toward the mid-late game is more opportunities for fighting plus "stakes" that we currently have little of. After "The Event" that begins waking the AI up (which could very well be the current end of the storyline now), Factions could employ the player to wipe out newly-formed Remnant systems, the player could join Faction-backed Expedition Armadas to go into Medium- and High-Danger systems and fight alongside to root out Remnant Battlestations, etc. However, unlike the Pirates/Pathers, the Player could theoretically wipe out the AI threat because there are only so many Remnant systems that could spawn new ones.

Mechanics:

My thought is that any Remnant battlestation (Damaged or Fully Operational) could spawn some sort of "seed ship" at certain intervals and send these ships to an adjacent system. Seed ships would come in "Defective" and normal varieties. Medium-Danger systems would have a higher incidence of "defective" seed ships and these would create Low-Danger systems once deployed (i.e. no battlestation). High-Danger systems would never send "defective" seed ships so their "rate of infection" would naturally be higher. Normal seed ships would travel slowly (like Burn 2) to adjacent systems set up shop to become a Damaged Remnant Battlestation after a certain amount of time and begin spawning their own patrols, and ultimately more seed-ships. The rate of "infection" in the Sector would eventually become exponential but not fast by any means (i.e. the player would have the opportunity to intercept seed ships via notifications and/or Faction expeditions to disrupt). Of course, if the player chooses not to intervene, the Sector will eventually become overrun and Remnant incursions into the Core Worlds will lead to the collapse of human civilization there (though Hybrasil never gets targeted...hmm...). No new High-Danger systems would ever be created in the spread, however, so that it doesn't get completely out of control.

The seed ship itself is akin to the Domain Mothership fights: a small-ish, immobile station fight. Defective seed ships could easily be destroyed by a few destroyers and frigates but fully-functioning ones are about the strength of a Tier 1 Station. As a rule, they would never have escorts. I think this is intentional and good design that Remnants are never in Hyperspace (some sort of anathema?). Only the seed ships would be found in hyperspace but because of "The Event," Gates might be a vector for infection. This would allow smaller exploration-focused fleets to still be able to deal with them out on the fringe without needing giant armadas to take down. Perhaps defective seed ships floating around in the outer reaches could also act as a "introductory Station fight" early game.

It would also be interesting to see the Factions, Pirates, and Pathers push back as their systems are encroached on, but that's getting into 4x territory.

Concerns:

That last part is the part I'm most worried about: this has a 4x feel to it and I know that's generally not within the scope of the game. Where this differs from Factions expanding into new territories, declaring war, seizing planets, etc. is that this whole thing has a singular-focus. The Remnant migration wouldn't have any "intelligence" to it and it only exists to add an existential threat to the Sector. The spread has more of a "blob" feel rather than territory-expansion on the level of a 4x. If they begin to get near your own colonies, you'd have an impetus to destroy them. If they're near the Core Worlds, the player might get more invitations to join expeditions, kind of like Pirate Activity events. There would be more bounties and whatnot, I'm sure. How the spread involves the player will really be the measure of success for this idea.

The other concern is that at a certain point, you'll get bombarded with Seed Ship notifications and that would get annoying, especially if it's 30 LY away and you have no vested interest. Perhaps you could click a box that says "only notify me if it's within 10 LY of my colony or the Core Worlds." I think that Seed Ship spawning is an event worth noting, though, at least the "normal" ones. Perhaps you also have to find Remnant systems first to get notified and otherwise they spread without your knowledge. Seeing the major factions send Expeditions against someone else for once might also make their punitive expeditions/AI inspections to your own worlds a little bit more reasonable!

Thoughts/comments/concerns welcome.
Logged

Sutopia

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1005
    • View Profile
Re: [REDACTED] system spread
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2021, 02:41:34 PM »

What I see in the suggestion is unlimited free guaranteed alpha core farm from damaged stations. Since remnants don't leave the system, doesn't chase player in Hyperspace and low danger ones don't even actively engage player, it's free real estate.

There is already planned end game threats and the suggestion itself doesn't actually provide an enemy that feels threatening or terrifying. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like the standard (not-damaged) remnant station doesn't increase? The suggestion itself sounds cool but it's not going to be able to fit the shoe of current pirates/pathers.
Logged


Since all my mods have poor reputation, I deem my efforts unworthy thus no more updates will be made.

FooF

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1389
    • View Profile
Re: [REDACTED] system spread
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2021, 03:32:12 PM »

You'd have to tweak how Pirates/Pathers spawn if this idea was implemented, though not by much if they can't spawn in Remnant systems. That is to say, as the Remnants spread, the Pirates/Pathers lose potential spawn points and they diminish by proxy. However, I have no intention of completely replacing Pirate/Pather raids or bases. I just don't believe they should have the ability to completely destabilize the Sector (for reasons mentioned). Remnants do have that ability but are currently quarantined off. Re: farming Cores, yes, I imagine that would be A Thing™ but I don't see how that's much different than farming Yellow/Red systems now.

Remnants not traveling in Hyperspace might have been a little hasty. I still think it distinguishes them but they might have alternative modes of travel (i.e. they can use the Gates after "The Event") or the seed ship is required to create a hyperspace front for Ordos to travel in. Thus, they can threaten player colonies and the Core Worlds but they do so slowly/methodically. What they won't be able to do is give chase to the player into hyperspace. I refer back to the "blob" idea of a slow-moving, but persistent force that just eats everything in its path. Remnant Invasion forces would ostensibly be well-anticipated so the defenders (be it Factions or player colonies) would have ample time to mount a defense. This could theoretically mean some truly awesome/huge AI fleets. While it might not be the end game "stuff of nightmares" already planned, they could be severe challenges that require multiple fleets and/or stations to derail. Whether Omegas are a part of these fleets would remain to be seen.

Logged