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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)  (Read 8794 times)

megabot

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2021, 06:55:32 AM »

on another note looking at the colony in which you start at the game start, it has aquaponics. the problem is however the planet has no condition that would make it actually produce anything
it also has pollution, extreme cold and no atmosphere, but is a station - that actually might/should be changed. other ingame stations do not have those conditions so it might be a good idea to remove them, and count it as a station for game purposes if it is not yet. i sugest adding a custom hediff that gives the option to produce food on the station without adding hazard levels, and maybe also add a hediff like "titan deconstructor" which makes the heavy industry and orbital works produce higher quality things, more things and require less materials as they are salvaging a domain era artifact. it might also be a good idea to make it bigger as currently there are more industries than there are industry slots

you can actually make the hediff also make the patrol fleets of the entire planet be stronger or spawn more fleets possibly and replace the high command with a simple patrol station or a custom variant of the high command which does not consume an industry slot. considering that the station is also there for salvage above all else i do not see why it has aquaponics to begin with to be honest

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megabot

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2021, 07:04:33 AM »

on the note of ships, right now they are to be honest...unreliable, to say the least

using a nanthantia class hyperspace vanguard i tried messing around with the drones, and they just straight out do not work. at first one had a paladin point defence equipped on the large drone, but it spawned in witha tachyon lance. uninstalling everything and reinstalling a paladin point defence system equipped it. however i noticed that any drone with anything equipped somehow always ends up having a malfunction of the weapons of some sort. also, installing a different weapon afterwards did not really work well as it just did not have a different weapon in combat

i am gonna test some more things around, and i currently run quite a few mods so i will try it unmodded(besides this mod, nexerelin and comissioned crews and their required mods)

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megabot

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2021, 07:22:13 AM »

so somehow, starting off with nexerelins large carrier scenario with the before mentioned ship, going into a combat simulation it once again had a tachyone lance and other things. however, somehow after a while it just...switched weapons to the paladin point defence, which is equiped on the figher on the ship. i do not know what happened there, i am now running with only the most neccesary mods

after a bit more testing, what appears to be happening is that the drones go into the ship to be what is usually being rearmed. however when they come out they seem to be replaced by the correct variant. i do not know why that is happening but that is essentially what went on.

so it is kind of working, but kind of not. the way the drones behave currently, namely more often than not just hang around the ship means that you do not really have the advantage that fighters have, and sometimes they are also still overloaded even  though the ship has still a lot of flux capacity left and is hanging around the minimum amount of flux which severely limits them. so that one needs working out. balance of course is not yet worked out so i will not talk about it, but so far it has promise of being interesting when the drone lib is integrated

oh and another thing so far you controll all your fighters with only one group. that one will probably need to be changed too so you fire what you want when you want if you control your own fighters

personally i will not use it for regular play troughs so far but i am sure that this mod will be great. good luck to you sir/miss, i hope i was able to help

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Tecrys

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2021, 01:18:03 PM »

also as a note, it might be a good idea to team up with someone who is good at writing. apologies if i am wrong, but i would assume you are japanese or korean or something and used google translate to make the descriptions(or maybe it was just a quick description). either way, by having someone translate or write the descriptions of the ships and game things you could both possibly have a higher quality of descriptions and more time to program. it is of course okay if you do not do that, it is your mod after all

I'm quite shocked by this comment since proofreading and improving my descriptions was done by someone who studied english literature. Neither of us is asian. Google translate isn't involved either.
I'm checking all descriptions to see what went wrong. Maybe I made mistakes when I copy/pasted them or something
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 01:28:38 PM by Tecrys »
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Algoul

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2021, 02:37:50 PM »

Ok i play little more.
Its all wanderfull, but where serious problem - ship dont have systems to support they passive roles. Enemies seek not drones - they seek main target and this pseudo carriers cannot stand even little agression. Almost zero armor, weak energie pool, no methods to redirect agro or tank it. They cannot push enemies by fireforce - they dont have it, its literally weakest ships in game - and no compensation for they weakness.
Its outstanding design - but for more then 15 hour of play with this faction i honestly have no idea how to survive with this fleet or save faction from grim destiny to be eaten by major factions.
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Tecrys

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2021, 12:10:42 AM »

Ok i play little more.
Its all wanderfull, but where serious problem - ship dont have systems to support they passive roles. Enemies seek not drones - they seek main target and this pseudo carriers cannot stand even little agression. Almost zero armor, weak energie pool, no methods to redirect agro or tank it. They cannot push enemies by fireforce - they dont have it, its literally weakest ships in game - and no compensation for they weakness.
Its outstanding design - but for more then 15 hour of play with this faction i honestly have no idea how to survive with this fleet or save faction from grim destiny to be eaten by major factions.

Sorry about that. I didn't take care of fleet composition of Freitag AI fleets very well. Some ships that should spawn more often like the Sand Hopper (the only pure military ship atm, you could try bringing more of these in your fleet) are way too rare. That might be a reason for being weak.
The Sand Hopper also brings a weapon platfrom into battle which can be used as a fleet anchor. You could try playing defensively around some of these weapon platforms, they are meant to be used like that.

On the other hand all those ships are civilian grade, so they should be rather weak.
In your own fleet, did you make sure all of them have militarized subsystems and Escort/Assault Package?
Are you playing with the mod commissioned crews which will double the bonus from those hullmods? If not, try doing that, it should improve combat viability.

Other than that I suggest mixing Freitag ships with actual military ships (vanilla or modded, doesn't matter)

also, installing a different weapon afterwards did not really work well as it just did not have a different weapon in combat
There are some limitations with weapon swapping on drones I have to work around. The drones will start with "the wrong" weapons and refit within 20 seconds to swap to the correct weapon loadout. That is what you are seeing when this happens:
after a bit more testing, what appears to be happening is that the drones go into the ship to be what is usually being rearmed. however when they come out they seem to be replaced by the correct variant. i do not know why that is happening but that is essentially what went on.

and sometimes they are also still overloaded even  though the ship has still a lot of flux
I could not reproduce the weapon malfunctions or overload you mentioned. The "Weapon Malfunction" floaty you see at the start of combat is from the weapons used as an interface that need to be disabled and made invisible. The whole weapon changing on fighters/drones is a bit hacky since it is not really supported by vanilla and a few such glitches will be visible unfortunatly.

if I may ask, is it intended that the salvage defender has no salvage gantry?
Yes, that is intended. It is a military ship supposed to defend other ships that have a salvage gantry and in order to do so it carries a defensive weapons platform. For example Crevette, Euphausia and Nathantia, which all have salvage gantries
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 12:28:55 AM by Tecrys »
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megabot

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2021, 06:41:23 AM »

also as a note, it might be a good idea to team up with someone who is good at writing. apologies if i am wrong, but i would assume you are japanese or korean or something and used google translate to make the descriptions(or maybe it was just a quick description). either way, by having someone translate or write the descriptions of the ships and game things you could both possibly have a higher quality of descriptions and more time to program. it is of course okay if you do not do that, it is your mod after all

I'm quite shocked by this comment since proofreading and improving my descriptions was done by someone who studied english literature. Neither of us is asian. Google translate isn't involved either.
I'm checking all descriptions to see what went wrong. Maybe I made mistakes when I copy/pasted them or something

ah, i apologise then. the thing is just that some of the descriptions are either lackluster or...weird. it felt like the descriptions are supposed to have a certain meaning that however got lost during translation, such as that of the corporation's headquarters
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Tecrys

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2021, 08:18:55 AM »

ah, i apologise then. the thing is just that some of the descriptions are either lackluster or...weird. it felt like the descriptions are supposed to have a certain meaning that however got lost during translation, such as that of the corporation's headquarters

Apart from the one for Anthozoa station, would you mind being more specific on which ones are weird, lackluster or their meaning got lost in translation?
That would be very helpful to me.

Sure, I am not a native speaker but I was kinda proud of some of those descriptions and I would really like to know how and where they don't hold up so I can improve them.
I'm used to reading english books and watch english tv shows/series so I'm really asking myself how I screwed up with these descriptions.
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megabot

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2021, 05:44:40 AM »

ah, i apologise then. the thing is just that some of the descriptions are either lackluster or...weird. it felt like the descriptions are supposed to have a certain meaning that however got lost during translation, such as that of the corporation's headquarters

Apart from the one for Anthozoa station, would you mind being more specific on which ones are weird, lackluster or their meaning got lost in translation?
That would be very helpful to me.

Sure, I am not a native speaker but I was kinda proud of some of those descriptions and I would really like to know how and where they don't hold up so I can improve them.
I'm used to reading english books and watch english tv shows/series so I'm really asking myself how I screwed up with these descriptions.

to be honest i do not remember, but specifically with the home base i feel like the writing does not fit starsector, in my opinion. specifically, each world by any faction usually has a description of it's history or current situation, political or otherwise. the freitag HQ just has the description that the ships fly around there like bloodsuckers or something and some things related to the broken gate, but no history at all, and nothing about what is going on inside the station itself.

the same actually partially applies to some ships i believe in that there is a lack of description of the ships history or use, which are usually in a many ship's description - as an example a trade ship being described as often preyed on so that it has gotten extra guns, and now is rarely engaged by pirates, or how a ship design was believed to be lost untill something happened, and what makes the ship special - such as say an EMP arc emitter, a shield and more weapons instead of a phase drive, or the fact that it is based on the "defense is the best offense" doctorine, like the molitor(or monitor?) class frigate. the ship that is there purely to defend salvage just says that salvage is life blood, but it is missing descriptions and flavor text.

an example for flavor text for that ship would as an example be "as salvage became more and more important in the persean sector the fights over it became commonplace and barely defended ships could no longer sustain themself on salvage, more likely becoming salvage themselves. a quickly cobbled together solution to that for the freitag corporation was the [ship class], which made sure that smaller pirate fleets could not for their dedicated salvagers. their effectiveness is limited but the cost and maintenance eficciency of them meant almost every civillian fleet has at least a few, though they have limited usefulness in larger engagements"

that is just an example i made in my head, it may be wrong lore wise as i do not know what the freitag corporation did(you can take and use it though, i do not mind) and i do not quite remember the ship's stats and purpose, but i feel like this would be a more fitting descripton
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megabot

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2021, 06:07:01 AM »

so actually reading the description again, it is completely unrelated to the ship itself. it just states that the freitag corporation is employed for haresting, but - that's it. no actual mention of the ship in there. even if the class already says it the descriptions should also state what it does, except not just in a title but more thoroughly. it does not have to be an entire book, but at least a sentence is needed, and more if it is very special.

the Nathantia- it costs 3 million credits, something nobody can afford untill end game, hell it is as expensive as 6 paragons! and compared to that it's usefulness is limited. and that, coupled with the description stating that it is there to discover new worlds and is the "pinacle of exploration".
not only does the ship lack description, but more importantly it lacks function. the description does not fit it, at all. it lacks storage, has no surveying equipement, or good sensors. a salvage gantry, while helping in exploration does not make it automatically good at it as it needs other things as well - else it would just be a (very expensive) salvage ship. and it is a civillian ship with horrible combat stats. given an Apogee class cruiser i would have a better exploration ship than this is, and a better combat ship, for less than a tenth of the price.

i apologise if this sounds rude, but the ships are not good balancing, function and description wise. their mainframe upling and drones do mean that the ship is interesting in a sense, but in creative mode with infinite money they lack a role, and in survival the prohibititive cost comes to it as well, so the ships are just...completely useless

i do not know if you have a general faction design idea - the current one seems to be civillian ships - but it might be good to first give most your ships a civillian role, then make them able to do something in combat with systems that complement the civillian nature(if you have a salvage carrier then you could say that it uses salvage drones, which you might even just make as a new entity and give to the ship). and then a description about the ship's function can be made, from battle to exploration and trade, with an added part of it's history. the name(ship class) should complement that. the hyperspace vanguard class as an example does not fit it's name, as it does not have a lot to do with hyperspace, nor is a vanguard - a quick google search said a vanguard basically leads the other ships into battle, meaning it should probably be tough and possibly faster than other ships.
Wikipedia: "The vanguard (also called the advance guard) is the leading part of an advancing military formation. It has a number of functions, including seeking out the enemy and securing ground in advance of the main force."

i do not have a lot more to say, besides, well - the drone idea is nice, but the content needs an overhaul. it is in it's alpha state after all, but it might be worth considering to do some things from scratch if it is hard to see trough everything. but if it isn't then changin everything is still in order
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Tecrys

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2021, 02:45:34 PM »

I don't know which descriptions you have been reading. Did you just read the short version when you mouse over and press F1? That is the only way I can make sense of your critique.
so actually reading the description again, it is completely unrelated to the ship itself. it just states that the freitag corporation is employed for haresting, but - that's it. no actual mention of the ship in there. even if the class already says it the descriptions should also state what it does, except not just in a title but more thoroughly. it does not have to be an entire book, but at least a sentence is needed, and more if it is very special.

the ship that is there purely to defend salvage just says that salvage is life blood, but it is missing descriptions and flavor text.

i do not know if you have a general faction design idea - the current one seems to be civillian ships - but it might be good to first give most your ships a civillian role, then make them able to do something in combat with systems that complement the civillian nature(if you have a salvage carrier then you could say that it uses salvage drones, which you might even just make as a new entity and give to the ship). and then a description about the ship's function can be made, from battle to exploration and trade, with an added part of it's history. the name(ship class) should complement that.
All of them have roles, function and history. Example:

to be honest i do not remember, but specifically with the home base i feel like the writing does not fit starsector, in my opinion. specifically, each world by any faction usually has a description of it's history or current situation, political or otherwise.
It's not on the station, I admit that but I did a ton of flavour and lore
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=22142.msg333768#msg333768

the Nathantia- it costs 3 million credits, something nobody can afford untill end game, hell it is as expensive as 6 paragons!
Freitag Corporation is a luxury brand and you pay a premium for their ships. I clearly state that in several descriptions and on the mod thread. You pay about 3-4 times the normal amount on Freitag ships to reflect that.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 02:57:15 PM by Tecrys »
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megabot

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2021, 07:05:30 AM »

so i have no idea how you can post images considering i have a total of 192 KB for file attachements, but here is an imgur log of how it looks in my game
https://imgur.com/a/M0qC4S8

so the ships actually have descriptions? somehow i seem to be lacking them. i will re download the mod and see if that is fixed
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megabot

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2021, 07:22:11 AM »

ok so for an unknows reason, the information of the ship only exists in the codex and not the actual description. i thought that the description had all the information. guess i was wrong.

in that case i would ask to transfer more information from the codex description to the one that you get when hovering over the question mark on the ship in the fleet menu

I'll retract my points about the description then for the time being and will read trough the descriptions first then
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megabot

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2021, 07:22:45 AM »

on a side note, have you put the mod into the mod index yet or am i just blind and cannot find it?
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megabot

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Re: [0.95a] OMM "Star Descriptions: A New Hope" Update (29.7.)
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2021, 08:39:12 AM »

ok so reading trough the descriptions they are actually quite good. kind of sad that i missed them before, at least i know what to search for now.

ok so the Nanthantia class for now needs something to, if i understood it correctly reduce the amount of damage the ships get trough hyperspace storms, possibly also reducing their effect on their speed and to either get surveyment equipement, a better hullmod to reduce the things needed for surveying or maybe instead have a multiplier for the reduction rather than a flat reduction. but the description is quite interesting i will admit.
as a note however, someone's time being compressed by a factor of 3 for 3 seconds means that for the player, that ship goes out of that compression in 1 second of the player's view, though 3 seconds have passed for the target ship
also, it seems to only target one ship, at least from what i have seen in the simulations, even if the ships are so close together that even a frigate would have trouble fittin in between them

the description of the accident gives me an idea though: a different design of the ship, not meant to compress it's time but to compress the actual space. this can be used for some things which I'll just list here, only as ideas
-better armor(due to it being more compact)
-regenerating armor(the armor basically being compressed in it's original form)
-crushing enemy ships(i do not know how that would work or would balance out)
-making your ship heavy without actually adding anything to it, makng it possibly better at ramming(no idea how that could be used, but maybe slow down enemy ships)
-manufacturing better kinetic/ballistic or even any ammo as it is more concentrated/heavier for more damage and/or knockback for the enemy ship(the second would mean that ships cannot get close, which can be good against ships with low range but you also cannot pursue very well). could be balanced out with flux costs/rate of fire
-maybe instead allow to give other ships a damper shield with it's ability, don't know how it would be explained though

hell, assuming that you can make ships lighter, this theoretically allows  you to move an entire station if the generator to distort the space is strong enough. not related to the pysical compression based ship but just an idea. maybe combine some ecrivesse class ships for the engines and then the Nanthantia reactor so it can be moving to begin with

as for the automated defense platform deployed by the sandhopper class, that really is an interesting idea i will admit. a sugestion i can give is maybe make hullmods that basically decide what kind of defense platform it will be, from carrier to balistic, or missile. as a side note though the fact that the platform is deployed after some time or near a point means you have little control over where and when it truly deploys. probably useful for a reinforced position but you more often than not also have to assault the enemy ships, so it's usefulness dimnishes because of that. because you cannod decide when it is deployed you can also not deploy it instantly when fleeing to hold up the enemy ships so there it is limited too tbh
reading the description of the ship now however i see that it was designed to do something else, so that is fair

the idea of the docking clamps is really cool. more logistics hull mods also means i can actually have both militarized sub systems for less maintenance by the extra cargo space hull mods and less visibility while also letting me install eficciency overhaul

small note: the algae pod class in the codex has no description. I don't know why it is there to begin with though to be honest
on the note of algae farming, one idea i would have is for the algae farms to reduce the supplies needed rather than produce their own, which would make calculation for how many more are needed easier and not enable a sort of early game supply farming strategy where you just farm algae and then sell it for money in the form of supplies. also as a note it might be better to increase the number of fuel a bit, to maybe 4 fuel per day rather than 1, though this number is based solely on the fact that supplies are consumed slower and also cost 100, compared to the 25 of the fuel. hower on the other hand fuel is consumed when in hyperspace only, though it is then consumed en masse...eh, I don't know what should be done

i do want to add though that the description of algae farm is apparently that of the drone uplink instead, and that it produces supplies and fuel even over the carrying capacity of the ships.
also, there was a hint at a bigger algae ship which apparently is not yet implemented. so, well, I'll wait and see what will happen with that one

else, so far it looks quite interesting in it's description(though some are missing, like that of the freitag corporation itself)

well, i wish you luck in improving this mod sir/miss. I do not think i have any other ideas so far, besides having later some ships be either stolen and adapted by the freitag corporation to fit it's designs or vice versa. but the priority right now is to make the current content fun, so, yeah. I'll wait to see what the future holds with this mod
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