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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Author Topic: Balance colonizable systems  (Read 1337 times)

Dexy

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Balance colonizable systems
« on: June 23, 2021, 03:29:57 AM »

The part of the game where I set out to find a good colonizable solar system is the worst.

Various aspects of how the game is designed encourage exploring the entire sector to find the bests systems to colonize. This is what I do but it is boring and I tend to lose interest in continuing a playthrough, and yet I don't want to colonize bad solar systems because colonizing is a significant investment and the next system I visit could be much better.

There should be much less of a difference between good colonizable solar systems and bad ones. The current wide difference is simply the result of the procedural generation generating solar systems and planets with randomly chosen good and bad traits. There does seem to be some rule that makes high hazard planets more likely to have better resources but no similar rules for various other modifiers and aspects that affect the overall solar system quality. In particular habitable planets suffer from this.

Cryosleepers and being punished for abandoning a colony make the lack of balance worse and further incentivize searching for the best solar systems.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2021, 03:33:30 AM by Dexy »
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Sutopia

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Re: Balance colonizable systems
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2021, 07:34:16 AM »

I think the main issue is not about min-max be hard but more on the lack of choice side.
People have certain expectations to what systems are good and there is no reason to tolerate a mediocre system.

I think the industry skill should be changed to allow more choices and opportunities.
For instance, let everyone only start with 1 manageable colony and cannot hire administrators.
Split it into dictatorship branch (more manageable planets, less penalty on mismanagement, self sufficiency bonuses) and the diplomatic branch (can hire administrators, administrators as contact for averting expeditions, accessibility bonus). Of course there is a hidden third path to just AI core everything and wait for the impending doom from hegemommy.
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AdmiralRem

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Re: Balance colonizable systems
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2021, 07:55:30 AM »

Ya searching for the right system was fun the very first time, then it got old real fast. My current work around is using the exploration mod. I save the game, command “explore all” find the system that looks right then reload the game and head there so not everything is shown as explore on my map and I can still systematically explore everything for loot. Cheating? Yes. But saves sooooo much time.
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Inhilicon

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Re: Balance colonizable systems
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2021, 11:20:01 AM »

Just hang in there! See it as a challenge of patience? I dunno, lol. My patience is terrible so I see it as a chance to improve that particular area.
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SCC

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Re: Balance colonizable systems
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2021, 12:25:47 PM »

Another way to handle this would be to give the player the ability to move population - though that would create another issues, that colonising the first habitable planet in sight as soon as possible to stock population up for later.

unobtrusiveSpacefarer

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Re: Balance colonizable systems
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2021, 06:20:35 AM »

I don't know, exploration seems pretty rewarding for me and that wide difference between barren balls of dirt and paradise worlds makes finding that one diamond in the rough feel super rewarding, and to me worth the investment of hours and hundreds of thousands of credits in supplies and fuel. Not to mention the realism aspect: as far as we know most planets would indeed make for a terrible place to set up a permanent population.

A way to make colonizing bad planets more worthwhile would be to give the player more terraforming options. Currently the only item you get that can offset negative planetary characteristics is that one fusion lamp, that requires the output from an entire size 6 gas giant, with plentiful volatiles and an Alpha Core in charge of mining, to be fed to it every month in terms of volatiles. Making its requirements a bit less ridiculous and adding more items or industries that can counter planetary maluses would go a long way towards expanding colonization options.

Problem is, from the way development is going it looks like the devs want to take Starsector more towards exploration and fleet combat than empire management. I feel like those of us that want more of the latter will have to go to Nexerelin for it.
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Kohlenstoff

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Re: Balance colonizable systems
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2021, 08:09:36 AM »

No matter, how good the Planets are. The player will allways find a desire to get the best. More planets, smaller systems, closer to core worlds, proximity of shunts and sleeper ships,...

On the other hand there needs to be something to do out there to get the actually good stuff and the prelimary knowledge about the sector to find the relevant endgame stuff. And having more diverse stuff makes it allways more interesting.

My suggestion is to be not too picky about hazard rating. Having any ressource and type of industry in one system pays after all much more off, than being in a low hazard system of the same size.

SonnaBanana

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Re: Balance colonizable systems
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2021, 08:43:50 AM »

There's nothing to balance; the planets and star systems are generated based on sector age settings, not difficulty.
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KDR_11k

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Re: Balance colonizable systems
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2021, 09:45:34 AM »

To me that's a matter of pushing my luck, do I want to get a colony up and running quickly or do I want to explore around for a better planet? Have I found one that's good enough already?`

Remember that proximity to the core worlds is important too (for accessibility bonuses) so a mediocre planet near the center is just as valuable as a great planet at the edge of the sector, maybe even more so.

I think the main issue is not about min-max be hard but more on the lack of choice side.
People have certain expectations to what systems are good and there is no reason to tolerate a mediocre system.

I think the industry skill should be changed to allow more choices and opportunities.
For instance, let everyone only start with 1 manageable colony and cannot hire administrators.
Split it into dictatorship branch (more manageable planets, less penalty on mismanagement, self sufficiency bonuses) and the diplomatic branch (can hire administrators, administrators as contact for averting expeditions, accessibility bonus). Of course there is a hidden third path to just AI core everything and wait for the impending doom from hegemommy.

Being limited to one colony without extra skills makes the first planet you pick more important than it already is. Currently you can set up your first colony early to get the basics going and then look for something else to colonize, maybe even something much better.
Plus the colony items strongly encourage having at least one habitable planet and one planet without an atmosphere.
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Sutopia

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Re: Balance colonizable systems
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2021, 11:22:57 AM »


Being limited to one colony without extra skills makes the first planet you pick more important than it already is. Currently you can set up your first colony early to get the basics going and then look for something else to colonize, maybe even something much better.
Plus the colony items strongly encourage having at least one habitable planet and one planet without an atmosphere.

I don’t know if you live in wonderland or what but limit to one planet effectively mitigates the feel of missing out when you do not fill all the available colony quota.
Finding one okay-ish planet is much easier than finding a “perfect” system.

How is the only planet you pick being more important when you are already tolerating mediocre planets to “get the basics going”? It’s exactly serving the purpose of “get the basics going” and just forget about it.

You’re also making wrong assumptions about colony items: you assume people can find infinite amount of every type, which is totally not true. In reality, by limiting to one planet base, a player can immediately go find a planet that can use whichever item he/she just found and not worry about finding all types of items.

It actually gives player more choices, not less, by eliminating the feel of missing out if they don’t fully utilize all available manageable planet quotas.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 11:26:29 AM by Sutopia »
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