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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Skill Changes, Part 2 (07/15/21)

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Author Topic: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts  (Read 701 times)

Phoenixheart

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I don't actually know if this is a bug, or working as designed, but I figured it's better to submit and find out.

I'm playing with mods, but I disabled almost all of them for testing purposes to see if this was a vanilla bug. The only mods enabled are:

ConsoleCommands
Lazylib

Tested with Prometheus Mk2 (hybrid ballistic/energy large turret) and Reality Disruptor (Synergy energy/missile), as well as with an Odyssey (Synergy energy/missile) trying to equip a Volatile Particle Driver

The disruptor is not able to be equipped in the Hybrid slot, even though the disruptor counts as an Energy weapon, and the Hybrid slot accepts energy weapons.

I did confirm that universal slots do accept all types, so it might just be an oversight regarding equipping two different hybridized weapons/mounts even though they share a common type.

(combined) Screenshot:
https://i.imgur.com/lQ1WJcS.jpeg
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Alex

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2021, 11:56:55 AM »

Hi - thank you for the report! This is actually intentional, yeah, but I can see how it would raise questions.
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Phoenixheart

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2021, 12:02:55 PM »

Dang. That causes some (modded) scenarios in which making some weapons more equippable (changing from ballistic to hybrid) ended up causing it to no longer work in some setups that it makes complete sense in.

Can we move this to the suggestions forum then, since it's not a bug?
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Alex

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2021, 12:23:53 PM »

Moved!

Dang. That causes some (modded) scenarios in which making some weapons more equippable (changing from ballistic to hybrid) ended up causing it to no longer work in some setups that it makes complete sense in.

Hmm - ballistic wouldn't go in a synergy slot to begin with, right. So - how so?
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Phoenixheart

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2021, 12:24:19 PM »

My modded use-case that caused me to realize this was a thing, I was trying to put the Tahlan lostech weapons (Project Silk) into the Synergy mounts on the Sylphon Equilibrium, and realized it wouldn't let me do it.
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Phoenixheart

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2021, 12:25:41 PM »

There are admittedly a LOT more modded scenarios where this is an issue than in vanilla.

Is this something that can be changed with a mod, or is it hardcoded into the game?
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Alex

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2021, 12:29:29 PM »

It's hardcoded; apologies!

IIRC if you set the weapon type to universal, though, that might do it? I honestly don't remember the behavior of that offhand, though.
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Phoenixheart

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2021, 12:31:53 PM »


Hmm - ballistic wouldn't go in a synergy slot to begin with, right. So - how so?

At least in vanilla, the Volatile Particle Driver "counts as energy for bonus purposes" so that implies it is primarily an energy weapon that happens to fit into a ballistic slot too. So a slot that works with both energy and missile weapons would logically work with a primarily energy weapon.

Maybe (and this may be getting too complex to be fun gameplay wise) have the bonus type determine the slot availability, so you could allow "primarily energy but also ballistic weapons I guess" into anything that accepts an energy slot. And a "primarily ballistic but also energy I guess" into a ballistic/misile slot?

At that point though you'd be running into the situation where you have weapons that have the same mount type that have different mount requirements, which is poor UI design at best, so that's not a viable solution...
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Alex

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2021, 12:44:49 PM »

You were saying that changing from e.g. ballistic to hybrid caused it to "no longer work" in some scenarios, though? That's the part where I might be missing something, since that doesn't seem like that would be the case. Perhaps you just meant it didn't work in some scenarios you also expected it to work in, rather than it somehow being more restrictive then before?

In any case, I get what you're saying, but I don't see it that way. Like... a synergy slot is a slot such that half of its features don't help you mount a hybrid weapon.

Regardless, you can set the type to universal if you really want to make it work.
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Phoenixheart

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2021, 12:56:42 PM »

Sorry, I meant that in .91 that weapon was energy, but after the 0.95 update to the mod, it was moved to a Hybrid weapon, and no longer fits in the slot that I had used it in previously.

And yes, setting the weapon to universal should work, but then that enables you to put it into a pure missile slot too, which is not the goal here.

My impression of the hybridized weapons was that a "hybrid" weapon had fittings for either ballistic or energy, but did not require both. Since you can put a hybrid weapon in either a pure energy or pure ballistic mount point, it doesn't REQUIRE the mountings of both types to work. Therefore, any mount that supports an energy weapon (either Energy, Synergy, or Hybrid) would have the needed support for any weapon that accepts an "only energy" mount.

That's my thinking on it, at least!
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2021, 01:03:36 PM »

It makes sense to me that if a weapon can be mounted in an energy slot, it should also be able to be mounted in a synergy slot. A synergy slot is supposed to be more general than an energy slot so it feels like it ought to be able to do anything an energy slot can do. You have a situation where if the slot is just an energy slot, it can mount hybrids, but if you make it into a synergy slot it loses some capability even though the slot is supposed to be becoming more general.
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Alex

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2021, 01:25:11 PM »

(Note that a synergy slot already loses some capability by no longer accepting down-sized weapons.)

Sorry, I meant that in .91 that weapon was energy, but after the 0.95 update to the mod, it was moved to a Hybrid weapon, and no longer fits in the slot that I had used it in previously.

Ah, ok, ok, makes sense. Wasn't thinking clearly.
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Vanshilar

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2021, 06:52:45 PM »

I think it's easier to think of the weapons in the shape of a ring: Energy - Hybrid - Ballistic - Composite - Missile - Synergy - Energy etc. Each mount of one type can handle weapons of itself and each adjacent type. In terms of the "in universe" explanation, perhaps the connections that allow a ballistic to be used on a hybrid mount is incompatible with those for a synergy mount.

Note that Energy/Ballistic/Missile mounts also allow for weapons one size smaller, whereas Hybrid/Composite/Synergy mounts do not.

In general, high-tech have more Energy/Synergy slots, midline more Ballistic/Hybrid, and low-tech more Ballistic/Composite slots.


At least in vanilla, the Volatile Particle Driver "counts as energy for bonus purposes" so that implies it is primarily an energy weapon that happens to fit into a ballistic slot too. So a slot that works with both energy and missile weapons would logically work with a primarily energy weapon.

Not necessarily; this is to make it clear which skills/shipsystems affect it. In this case, this is to say that High Energy Focus affects it, but Automated Ammo Feeder does not.
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Retry

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2021, 09:41:04 PM »

(Note that a synergy slot already loses some capability by no longer accepting down-sized weapons.)
That's more of an advantage than not, especially with Autofit.
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prav

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Re: Hybrid weapons don't show up in list to equip on Synergy mounts
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2021, 08:09:45 AM »

Personally I found this behavior both useful to design around and intuitive to use. A hybrid weapon is a hybrid weapon, which naturally switches which mounts can take it one step along the weapon type "circle".
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