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Author Topic: Omni shield needs a rework  (Read 723 times)

Sutopia

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Omni shield needs a rework
« on: June 10, 2021, 08:31:59 PM »

I find myself from time to time would use front conversion, but never used omni conversion.
The reason is simple: frontal shield is superior to omni shield in every aspect except it cannot turn it's direction.
The downside is so minor and oftentimes omni shield AI is not that good at pointing shield makes omni shield very underwhelming.

My two cents would be make omni shield a passive 360 shield. When the shield got hit, the part that got hit "hardens" to mitigate the damage. A hardened area will take certain amount of time to re-distribute the shield energy, and the shield arc would be the total possible hardened angles. When the available angles run out, the armor/hull is exposed to direct fire.
This can make AI less complicated, no longer need to determine where to point their shield, and much more competitive against frontal shield.

Techpriest

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2021, 08:37:44 PM »

I mean if omni shields were faster in turning, I might actually consider them more but wow they take forever and the AI has trouble adjusting to that.

My thoughts on the balance are that front-shields would have a slow time deploying their full arc potential. While omni-shields are played toggling on and off or at least arc switching side to side at least within a 0.5-second rate or something.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 08:39:18 PM by Techpriest »
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Linnis

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2021, 11:04:28 PM »

omni are good on ships like eagles to prevent them from spinning themselves and not using the medium mounts in middle. Also good on ships when fleet battles are large and ships need to shield juggle hits.

I use it alot.
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SCC

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2021, 04:29:43 AM »

It sounds like the frontal shield conversion is too strong, not that omni shields are too weak.

IonDragonX

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2021, 05:23:16 AM »

It sounds like the frontal shield conversion is too strong, not that omni shields are too weak.
This, I can agree with.

KDR_11k

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2021, 08:42:49 AM »

It sounds like the frontal shield conversion is too strong, not that omni shields are too weak.
Also I'm too lazy to do much with omni shields, since I have to set my ship to manual turning to make it different to frontal shields. Additionally I'm not really in a mood to deal with shield and aiming directions separately.
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TaLaR

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2021, 10:11:55 AM »

I do occasionaly use manual omni shield control. For Conquest it's more or less the norm. Odyssey less so, because auto-firing Plasma Cannons is too flux expensive. To some extent Paragon as well. On small ships I only use it to block salamanders.

Omni-shield conversion however is useless. Ships that need omni-shield, already have it. The others have no reason to pay the OP/arc price.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 10:13:37 AM by TaLaR »
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2021, 10:21:18 AM »

When I'm flying an Odyssey, I do use the auto-fire plasma cannons, but also manually turn them off when needed due to flux concerns.  Being able to plasma burn, vent, and bring up shields where I need them (often in a port-stern arc) is quite valuable if I'm trying to solo a late game bounty fleet.

The type of ship which I think does benefit from Omni-shield hull mod conversion is the Onslaught (or mod ships like it).  High armor, somewhat broadside capable, and really slow to turn.  The fact the shield is smaller and is more willing to be dropped helps, as the ship is utilizing it's armor more, while still seeming to prioritize high HE projectiles like reapers, and certainly improves it's outlook when it's isolated from allies.
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Euqocelbbog

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2021, 01:30:38 PM »

I've noticed that omni+wider angle shields sometimes confuses the AI. AI-piloted Paragons getting their armor melted because they tried to unnecessarily micromanage shields is something I see a lot.
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Retry

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2021, 01:50:40 PM »

It sounds like the frontal shield conversion is too strong, not that omni shields are too weak.
Front Shield Conversion isn't even the top 10 strongest hullmods, but Omni Shield Conversion is definitely in the top 10 weakest.  (Yes, even with the recent cost reduction)

Most of the ships that benefit the most from Omni-shields already have them.  Many (though not all) of the ships that could use Omni Shielding to cover vulnerable engines can often get by with cheaper extended shielding instead, with no loss of shield coverage from Omni.  In contrast, quite a few non-Broadside Omni Shielding ships can benefit somewhat from a Front Shield conversion (though not enough to prioritize it over more general hullmods IME).  For player usage, trying to balance pointing the omni-shielding and main guns can be annoying, which is a non-issue for front shields.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2021, 01:59:58 PM »

Other than the specific case where front shields give 360 coverage, it usually feels like spending a bunch of OP on changing shields around is not worthwhile in either direction.
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Thaago

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2021, 02:40:27 PM »

Other than the specific case where front shields give 360 coverage, it usually feels like spending a bunch of OP on changing shields around is not worthwhile in either direction.

This is mostly my feeling as well: there are a few ships that get to 360 with front shields that the front shield emitter are quite good on to stop any flanking and get the flux cost reduction. Omni shields in general are just better than front shields though, if the front shield can't get to 360 or near 360 - being able to point in any direction is really good.

A lot of front shielded ships also have very wide shields with either rear facing vulcans/flaks or have maneuvering jets to help protect them, so they don't really need omni shields. The midlines are like that - 300 (? I think) degrees with other abilities to reliably protect their engines. In cases where thats not the case - like the Wolf and Legion - the front shield is a serious liability. (Poor wolves just plain die to interceptors. Narrow front shield + weak energy PD + weak armor/hull = talon food).
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MesoTroniK

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2021, 12:26:21 AM »

I might be crazy, but if it is stupid and it works then it isn't stupid...

I Omni Shield convert Wolves and use them late game and they are viable like that even against deth stack fleets... Where they aren't with front shields in my experience.

WeiTuLo

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2021, 07:36:06 AM »

I recently took frontal shield conversion off my Radiant to make it more aggressive. Before, it would retreat in the face of annihilator or squall fire (but would vent slightly out of range and take some armor hits anyways). Without, it still sorta backs off, but is a lot more willing to keep fighting.
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Jaghaimo

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Re: Omni shield needs a rework
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2021, 02:57:13 PM »

I might be crazy, but if it is stupid and it works then it isn't stupid...

I Omni Shield convert Wolves and use them late game and they are viable like that even against deth stack fleets... Where they aren't with front shields in my experience.
I think this is true for all phase teleporter ships (survivability increase). They can instantly bring up their shields back where the damage is coming from. Without omni, Wolf teleports, tries to bring shields up, eats a salvo or missile to the side and explodes.
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