Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed  (Read 3268 times)

lz14

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« on: June 08, 2021, 04:28:26 PM »

Starsector combat seems to be loosely based on real world navy ship combat. We don't have submarines in the game, to me phase ships play a similar role as they have stealth.

However phase ships are overpowered and mass of them are extremly annoying to deal with. Imagine in real life subs underwater are x3 faster than an anti-sub destroyer !

Even not as op, navies already devote huge amount of resources to specialised anti-submarine warfare. I think this is what's needed for starsector. There should be specific anti-phase missles and systems so the AI can't just rock up a full phase fleet, there's got to be effective counter to that.

This would provide more choices to play with, more fun fighting phase ships and curb op phase ships in player's hand etc.

Someone probably thought of this before, What do you guys think ?



« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 04:34:07 PM by lz14 »
Logged

Sutopia

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1005
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2021, 04:32:05 PM »

Are you looking for: High Intensity Laser
Are you looking for: warthog

Fighters can usually cripple phase ships except for doom and lasers can easily suppress phase ships
Logged


Since all my mods have poor reputation, I deem my efforts unworthy thus no more updates will be made.

xescape

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2021, 05:12:06 PM »

I find phase lance / tachyon lance on turreted mounts to be effective against phase ships. There's a 2 second cool down on phase cloaks, and the ships themselves have lighter weapons. So if you trick the AI into uncloaking in your range, you can quickly kill it. They also cost around double DP compared to ships of the same class with relatively little firepower (except doom), so you can either devote a larger ship to them, fighter strike as above poster mentioned, or ignore them to fight the non-phase guys. 

The only phase fleet I've had trouble with in vanilla is a particular triple-doom fleet.. but those aren't commonly seen.
Logged

Zakaluka

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2021, 08:40:15 PM »

harbinger's special is an anti-phase system.
Logged

Helldiver

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
  • space fruit
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2021, 08:47:26 PM »

+1 on dedicated anti-phase equipment and anything resembling ASW. There needs to be a way for non-phased ships to interact with phased ships the same way surface ships would interact with submarines with depth charges and detection systems.
Logged
Afflictor bean plushie that glows purple when you squeeze it
30$

Kiddin Me

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2021, 10:04:34 PM »

The Doom is its own problem. It has the reverse of this issue, in that it has an absurdly powerful ability with minimal options for interaction or avoidance, making it obnoxiously powerful when used by the AI and literally, genuinely, game-breakingly overpowered in the player's hands.

I'm honestly fairly disappointed that it's remained as-is for so long, and I made this account specifically to note as much.

In general, phase is just kind of stupid both in the player's hands and when playing against it, insofar as it's a button that just ... turns off danger. The counterplay to it is "have an autofire turret and twiddle your thumbs," which is a non-trivial factor in why it's either overpowered (hurr durr Doom boom button) or pretty mediocre (the rest of them).

Having played against the triple doom flee that xescape references ... it made me take a break from the game. Seeing it kill a pair of level 7 officered, extra-systemed Paragons with support and suffer no losses (not even an Afflictors) just made me wonder what the heck Alex is thinking.
Logged

Vanshilar

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 585
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2021, 03:01:06 AM »

Someone probably thought of this before, What do you guys think ?

Yes, in fact, the game has multiple game mechanics that let you deal with phase ships, all put in by the developers, who have spent a lot of time thinking about this. Like WW2 submarines, phase ships need to eventually "surface", since they build up hard flux while phased; plus they don't have shields. So you need to make sure they don't escape and vent safely. To do this, you can use fighters to swarm them, long-range beams (which are nice since they hit instantly), and/or fast ships. The key is to put constant pressure on them to remove their window of safety when they need to vent.

Spoiler!
Spoiler
In fact the easiest way I found to kill the new phase ship is to just use 2 Paragons with HIL and some ion beams for fun. Its motes may disable one's weapons, but the other one will still be active, so it dies quickly once it's forced to unphase.
[close]

Dooms are of course a separate issue, but fortunately, the AI isn't as good at abusing them as the player is.
Logged

AcaMetis

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2021, 03:05:02 AM »

Dedicated anti-Phase equipment would just end up being a tax on your loadout since "you need them to defeat Phase ships!" (not really, but you know it will end up interpreted as such), while in reality it would sit there being useless most of the time because most fleets don't deploy any phase ships. Well, depending on who you make enemies with, but than you should know what you're signing up for.

(The fleet xescape mentioned is, IIRC, the second last in a long list of doomfleets that every single faction in the game sends you way at some point or another if you're going down that path. So even if you don't make enemies with that fleet's current faction the appearance of that particular Doomfleet should come as no surprise at that point.)
Logged

SafariJohn

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3010
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2021, 08:28:29 AM »

(The fleet xescape mentioned is, IIRC, the second last in a long list of doomfleets that every single faction in the game sends you way at some point or another if you're going down that path. So even if you don't make enemies with that fleet's current faction the appearance of that particular Doomfleet should come as no surprise at that point.)

I reloaded when I encountered that doomfleet because I knew I had no chance against it. It is substantially stronger than the other doomfleets and appears in an area where you are not expecting to encounter any fleets.
Logged

AcaMetis

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2021, 08:45:37 AM »

I remember the first time I encountered that fleet I ditched it by flying straight through a neutron star. Significantly less painful than actually fighting it, no question. The second time I actually encountered it in one of those "independent(/pirate) salvager operations" systems, though, one of those with multiple fleets flying around and a ton of debris fields. IIRC I...volunteered some of those fleets to act as distractions while I accomplished my objective, which caused the Doomfleet to despawn. At least I wasn't able to find it after encountering one of those inexplicably gigantic pirate ambush fleets and trying to lure that one over to the Doomfleet just for the fun of it, but alas, they were long gone.
Logged

DownTheDrain

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 274
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2021, 02:05:04 PM »

I don't use phase ships but I don't think they're a balance issue either. Except for the Doom in player hands I guess, but you're not facing that.
They're usually just... annoying.

Dedicated anti-phase weapons could be a way to make them less exhausting to fight but then you'd have to constantly change loadouts depending on what you're facing. I suppose an anti-phase system of some kind could work as long as it's not a complete hard-counter.
Logged

prestidigitation

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2021, 02:46:49 PM »

Someone probably thought of this before, What do you guys think ?

Yes, in fact, the game has multiple game mechanics that let you deal with phase ships, all put in by the developers, who have spent a lot of time thinking about this. Like WW2 submarines, phase ships need to eventually "surface", since they build up hard flux while phased; plus they don't have shields. So you need to make sure they don't escape and vent safely. To do this, you can use fighters to swarm them, long-range beams (which are nice since they hit instantly), and/or fast ships. The key is to put constant pressure on them to remove their window of safety when they need to vent.

Spoiler!
Spoiler
In fact the easiest way I found to kill the new phase ship is to just use 2 Paragons with HIL and some ion beams for fun. Its motes may disable one's weapons, but the other one will still be active, so it dies quickly once it's forced to unphase.
[close]

Dooms are of course a separate issue, but fortunately, the AI isn't as good at abusing them as the player is.

So everything low tech doesn't get oof
Logged

prestidigitation

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2021, 02:49:04 PM »

I don't use phase ships but I don't think they're a balance issue either. Except for the Doom in player hands I guess, but you're not facing that.
They're usually just... annoying.

Dedicated anti-phase weapons could be a way to make them less exhausting to fight but then you'd have to constantly change loadouts depending on what you're facing. I suppose an anti-phase system of some kind could work as long as it's not a complete hard-counter.

A phased depth charge equivalent would be a nice addition for non phase frigates or possibly destroyers. Then they could act as phase chasers and force them out of their hidey hole. It stands to reason that if you can phase a spaceship you can phase a bomb to attack that space ship.
Logged

Locklave

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Anti-Phase system and equipment needed
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2021, 03:06:37 PM »

So everything low tech doesn't get oof

ROFL, that's the story of the game right now.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2