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Author Topic: [0.95.1a-RC6] Trophy s-mods [0.7.2]  (Read 14029 times)

michail

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.0]
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2021, 11:26:30 PM »

Getting a Medusa with expanded deck crew and nav relay and trying to figure out what the hell to do with it is quite fun.

Hm. This shouldn't have happened, expanded deck crew is configured to appear only on ships with fighter slots. Will check.

most S-mods will be minor/situational/nonsensical.

There is some logic that tries to produce halfway sensible loadouts, but aside of a few very specific hullmods it's configured with rather broad strokes. Any suggestions are more than welcome, I can't hope to find all problems and oddities alone, given the length of an average "complete" playthrough.

Also what is an S-mod?

A permanently built-in hullmod, made by spending story points in vanilla on fleet refit screen.

Does this mod add extra S-mods?

Not sure if you're asking if the mod adds any hullmods, or if it increases the number of possible built-in hullmods. No, it doesn't add any new hullmods. Yes, AI ships can have (by default, configurable) 5 built-ins compared to vanilla's cap of 2 for player (3 with a skill).
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Amoebka

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.0]
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2021, 06:40:27 AM »

I think having carrier hullmods on non-carriers is fine as long as they can mount converted hangars (so no frigates and no phase ships).

As for the loadout sensibility, it's a subjective thing, I guess. Personally, I would prefer ships to have lots of random s-mods rather than a couple always useful ones. On my end I will try tweaking some numbers, I think increasing the average number of s-mods without increasing the 5 max limit should do what I want.

For suggestions, perhaps very low OP hullmods, like flux conduits or repair unit should have less weigth. Or maybe hullmods should be logically separated into "game-changing ones" (safety overrides, converted hangar, shield bypass, etc) and "boring stat buffs", and the algorithm should try to get at least one game-changing hullmod before going back to random.
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ModdedLaharl

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.0]
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2021, 10:52:34 PM »

You might want to include a blacklist. I threw it into my campaign and it mostly pulls from Automatic Orders and hullmods that are supposed to be exclusive to certain classes of ships.
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michail

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.0]
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2021, 10:22:40 AM »

You might want to include a blacklist. I threw it into my campaign and it mostly pulls from Automatic Orders and hullmods that are supposed to be exclusive to certain classes of ships.

Ow, this is nasty. Here's a fix (same version, I haven't merged it into mainline yet). There is a way to blacklist hullmods: just assign a non-positive weight to them. And that's not even a hack, it's 100% intended to work this way) A question just in case: did you coerce the original Automatic Orders to run on 0.95a, or do you mean its newer incarnation "Automated Commands"? The fix targets the latter, but if the former is still usable, I might include it as well.

I think having carrier hullmods on non-carriers is fine as long as they can mount converted hangars (so no frigates and no phase ships).

As for the loadout sensibility, it's a subjective thing, I guess.

It's not really this particular hullmod being where it shouldn't that bothers me, but rather a possibility of blacklisting via weights being unreliable in general. As for sensibility, "would refit screen allow this" is a good lower bound. Granted, the mod already violates it: s-modded SO in the wild is perfectly possible.

Or maybe hullmods should be logically separated into "game-changing ones" (safety overrides, converted hangar, shield bypass, etc) and "boring stat buffs", and the algorithm should try to get at least one game-changing hullmod before going back to random.

Yes, the mod needs to be able to factor in hullmod categories and tags. It'd open many interesting possibilities - including the kind of tiering you suggest - as well as make things like the above fix a lot easier.

A related neat idea is to make the portion of s-mod pool each hullmod consumes when applied variable. So a pool of, say, 2, can provide heavy armor with ITU or 4 lesser hullmods. It'd allow more flexibility when configuring smods-per-DP: the formula is linear and has to be tuned to avoid both "small fleets got nothing" and "large fleets are insane" extremes.
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IonDragonX

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.0]
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2021, 07:12:06 PM »

There is a way to blacklist hullmods: just assign a non-positive weight to them. And that's not even a hack, it's 100% intended to work this way)
Please write the instructions to blacklist into your documentation. At least on the OP but also consider a README.txt in the main folder.
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michail

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.0]
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2021, 11:01:52 PM »

Getting a Medusa with expanded deck crew and nav relay and trying to figure out what the hell to do with it is quite fun.

Hm. This shouldn't have happened, expanded deck crew is configured to appear only on ships with fighter slots. Will check.

Found an Afflictor with EDC yesterday evening. It is a bug, and the silliness just made my morning: the mod believes universal mounts are also fighter bays.
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Amoebka

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.0]
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2021, 04:43:56 AM »

Speaking of bugs, I'm currently flying a converted hangar Astral. And yes, the penalties apply to all 7 bays, not just the added one.
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michail

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.0]
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2021, 11:16:35 AM »

0.4.1 with fixes for Automated Commands and carrier stuff is out. Thank you everyone for suggestions and bug reports.

Speaking of bugs, I'm currently flying a converted hangar Astral. And yes, the penalties apply to all 7 bays, not just the added one.

This is so horrible. What'd you fit it with to salvage this mess?

There is a way to blacklist hullmods: just assign a non-positive weight to them. And that's not even a hack, it's 100% intended to work this way)
Please write the instructions to blacklist into your documentation. At least on the OP but also consider a README.txt in the main folder.

Updated the OP, will add a readme to the archive later. Time for a celebration, it seems. Very few of my projects reach the state when documentation is not only necessary, but also asked for.
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Amoebka

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.1]
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2021, 12:25:52 PM »

7 mining pods and went all-in on missiles. It also has a built-in unstable injector, so salvaging it as a carrier was never an option.
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IonDragonX

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.1]
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2021, 06:48:10 PM »

7 mining pods and went all-in on missiles. It also has a built-in unstable injector, so salvaging it as a carrier was never an option.
This is why I love this mod. :)
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michail

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.2]
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2021, 11:33:15 PM »

Got an inkling yesterday there might be a bug preventing hullmods AI loves from being s-modded. There was. If you want to see s-modded Heavy Armor on Onslaughts more than once in a blue moon, please update. A whole bunch of other useful hullmods got hit by this, I'd imagine.
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SenSayed

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.2]
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2021, 01:42:09 AM »

Hello! Very great mod. I have a good idea to mod. Lets say that market N has 145% quality and opposite market, the M, has 50% quality. Then s-mod calclulator will determine how often s-mod will occur based on quality. So, for 145% it would be (145-100)/2= 22% of additional s-mod. And for market M, whic has less than 100, it would be (100-50)/2=25% less s-mods based on quality. Then "quality doctrine" would play equal role to "officer doctrine". It makes sense as Tach fleets maxed out quality have to be "better but smaller in quantity" than luddite fleets, which is "many d-modded shuttles", is literally d-modded trashcans
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Amoebka

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.2]
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2021, 02:02:29 AM »

It sort of doesn't make sense, in-universe. The only markets that make spaceships are the ones with orbital works. Everyone else imports ships, so their local quality shouldn't matter. Most factions only have one ship building planet, too, so that planet's quality will effectively apply to the whole faction.

From a modding perspective, some fleets don't have a market of origin associated with them.
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SenSayed

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.2]
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2021, 02:53:32 AM »

Markets with shipmaking industry benefits all planets equally, including planet itself. Other things that could manipulate quality is instability or/and destroyed heavy industry and orbital works. As in-game lore  "low-tier" material equiped into export and small patrols (if player started colony without heavy industry, there will debuff to quality -25% and called crossfactions imports). As i think, s-mod should be the quality measure other than "simply s-mod all you can". My point of view is that officered ships has to be more s-modded than others so you can accumulate large s-mods on important ships quickly (hegemony's officered ships would be great case because of "officer quality doctrine"). And Tach fleet that lack officer skills and nubmer of ships has to overcome officered hegemony onslaught to make "superquality" ships (as it seems like quality over quantity).
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SenSayed

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] Trophy s-mods [0.4.2]
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2021, 03:58:09 AM »

Also, lets say that over all "pool" of s-mods per imaginary detachment is 15. there is detachments with 15 s-mods: hegemony and tach, luddite (which about we will talk later). So hegemony has level 7 with quantity of 5 officers and they sit in onslaughts and legions. So 5 ships will get around 2 s-mods while unofficered ships will not get their s-mod or get a little (idea here is to make most combat-capable ships most efficient). Then goes Tach with 3 officers and 4 level averege. Then, logically, dooms and paragons would get around 3 and others ships in fleet would distribute around 1-2 s-mod per ship (excluding civilian ships)(idea here is to make all ships best of the best)(edited: yes, there will be little more than 15 s-mods as there would be much larger quality with pristine nanoforge). And there is luddite which is inconsistent as their d-mods in averege is two. So s-mods would actually be not 15 but 12, because 2 of 5 possible d-mods in fleet already (or 40% less quality than 100% and then 20% less s-mods)(idea here is to NOT compensate d-mods with equally s-mods so nanoforges will play a giant role. for instance pristine nanoforges will have proper implementations as quality over 100% will matter). Also you will be able to change ratio of s-mods/quality in config files and vanilla settings would be like now.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 04:46:21 AM by SenSayed »
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