Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]

Author Topic: Possible buff to Low Tech Ships idea  (Read 4335 times)

CanaldoVoid

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Possible buff to Low Tech Ships idea
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2021, 08:25:55 AM »

CanaldoVoid, I think your doctrine is just really unusual and not used by most players. You kite hard with stacked beam weapons yes? This sort of style is going to be really effective against Low Tech ships, which are lacking in dissipation and will not be able to catch faster ships with longer range. This is probably part of why you feel the way you do. It's a cool doctrine though, and it's neat to see all the ways people play the game.

I usually fit a lot of LRPD Lasers or PD Lasers on my ships, as they are fairly flux efficient and are usually good to shoot at enemies in addition to shooting down fighters and missiles. LRPD Lasers can also be used to provide point defense for allied ships as well, which is quite helpful.

I usually won't fit stuff like Single or Dual Autocannons on ships, but this is more because their ranges do not match up with the larger weapon ranges rather than the weapons themselves being ineffective. I generally like Light Machine Guns a lot though, and personally prefer them to Vulcans because of their longer reach and ability to pressure shields extremely well at close ranges. I usually don't use much ballistic PD outside of Flak Cannons though. Light Mortars are notably extremely efficient HE weapons and can be very effective on a number of ships. Fitting a Hammerhead with two Light Mortars and two medium kinetic weapons can be quite effective.

I've not killed any real late game enemies recently, at least not with vanilla stuff, but there was that time I faced down a few small groups of Remnants with just Hounds and won without any losses. Lots of hull and armor damage though.

I see, that would make sense, it's just weird that the few posters I've been seeing in the same topics all over the forum seem to use this same playing style which seems to be completely different from every reddit post, discussion, every social media, every fb group, every discord group and every gameplay video/let's play series I've ever seen about Starsector.

But out of curiosity, I was reading Rusty's guide to AI friendly ships and I couldn't help but to notice his onslaught design is basically identical to mine, save for a few differences (IE: I don't downsize the dev cannons as I want it covering the entire fleet as a nuking PD platform that basically takes care of everyone else) but the rest is basically the same, long range railguns matching it's own natural weapon's range, possibly a helbore (heph sucks), 3 annihilators to make the enemy's PD go nutts wasting tons of flux and..... Nearly every, or just every small slot empty.

It's like I've been arguing defending a point that's just common sense all this time when guides are doing exactly what I'm pointing out to be a problem, possibly for the same exact reasons.
Logged

Yunru

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: Possible buff to Low Tech Ships idea
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2021, 09:26:05 AM »

Well that's the problem: Reddit's a cancer :P

I'm also fairly sure the unofficial official Starsector discord would probably disagree too, as they draw their memberbase mostly from this forum.

And I don't think anyone's said full smalls is totally superior. Indeed, that was not the point being (originally) argued: It was that full smalls is too strong to be free.

StrikeEcho

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Possible buff to Low Tech Ships idea
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2021, 09:35:00 AM »

Quote
But out of curiosity, I was reading Rusty's guide to AI friendly ships and I couldn't help but to notice his onslaught design is basically identical to mine, save for a few differences (IE: I don't downsize the dev cannons as I want it covering the entire fleet as a nuking PD platform that basically takes care of everyone else) but the rest is basically the same, long range railguns matching it's own natural weapon's range, possibly a helbore (heph sucks), 3 annihilators to make the enemy's PD go nutts wasting tons of flux and..... Nearly every, or just every small slot empty.

Dude, did you not see IPDAI as the reason why there were so few PD? Plus other than flak, vulcans were the only PD weapons on that build?
Logged

Retry

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
    • View Profile
Re: Possible buff to Low Tech Ships idea
« Reply #63 on: June 06, 2021, 12:10:15 PM »

I don't see the point in blaming the subreddit; while they've got some frequently odd builds and inadvisable takes, the vast majority of (non-meme) builds posted there do not forego the small mounts as the OP describes.  A cursory look through the subreddit clearly shows that.

Neither did the linked YT video claim that small's are pointless.  In fact, the guy had neutral to positive things to say about the majority of the small weapons in their respective sections, including the Vulcan and Light Needler.  He even had more positive things to say about the LAG than I'd ever be willing to claim.

Neither did the unofficial Discord server (linked in the Forums) agree with the OP's perspective, the primary "dwelling" of most of our mod author, tournament managers, spaders, streamers, and other Star Sector community members.  The Discord reaction to this suggestion was universally negative, but at least there's been several memes that's been generated from this thread alone.
Logged

RustyCabbage

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
    • View Profile
Re: Possible buff to Low Tech Ships idea
« Reply #64 on: June 06, 2021, 01:12:20 PM »

CanaldoVoid, I think your doctrine is just really unusual and not used by most players. You kite hard with stacked beam weapons yes? This sort of style is going to be really effective against Low Tech ships, which are lacking in dissipation and will not be able to catch faster ships with longer range. This is probably part of why you feel the way you do. It's a cool doctrine though, and it's neat to see all the ways people play the game.

I usually fit a lot of LRPD Lasers or PD Lasers on my ships, as they are fairly flux efficient and are usually good to shoot at enemies in addition to shooting down fighters and missiles. LRPD Lasers can also be used to provide point defense for allied ships as well, which is quite helpful.

I usually won't fit stuff like Single or Dual Autocannons on ships, but this is more because their ranges do not match up with the larger weapon ranges rather than the weapons themselves being ineffective. I generally like Light Machine Guns a lot though, and personally prefer them to Vulcans because of their longer reach and ability to pressure shields extremely well at close ranges. I usually don't use much ballistic PD outside of Flak Cannons though. Light Mortars are notably extremely efficient HE weapons and can be very effective on a number of ships. Fitting a Hammerhead with two Light Mortars and two medium kinetic weapons can be quite effective.

I've not killed any real late game enemies recently, at least not with vanilla stuff, but there was that time I faced down a few small groups of Remnants with just Hounds and won without any losses. Lots of hull and armor damage though.

I see, that would make sense, it's just weird that the few posters I've been seeing in the same topics all over the forum seem to use this same playing style which seems to be completely different from every reddit post, discussion, every social media, every fb group, every discord group and every gameplay video/let's play series I've ever seen about Starsector.

But out of curiosity, I was reading Rusty's guide to AI friendly ships and I couldn't help but to notice his onslaught design is basically identical to mine, save for a few differences (IE: I don't downsize the dev cannons as I want it covering the entire fleet as a nuking PD platform that basically takes care of everyone else) but the rest is basically the same, long range railguns matching it's own natural weapon's range, possibly a helbore (heph sucks), 3 annihilators to make the enemy's PD go nutts wasting tons of flux and..... Nearly every, or just every small slot empty.

It's like I've been arguing defending a point that's just common sense all this time when guides are doing exactly what I'm pointing out to be a problem, possibly for the same exact reasons.
(her)

Some notes for that Onslaught build:
a) it was designed in a skill-less 0.9.1a scenario. The equivalent in 0.95a has 30-60 more OP thanks to s-mods.
b) even for 0.9.1a it's slightly outdated and I started playing around with using IPDAI small weapons in the rear to better handle flanking ships
c) the increased ease of obtaining the Point Defense skill in 0.95a significantly improves Vulcan spam and this build would probably not look the same in light of that.
d) other players sometimes differ with me on this but the main drawback to using small non-PD weapons in these slots is a lack of range matching. This is less of an issue on smaller ships and hence small weapons are more prevalent there.
e) Annihilators that hit have a much higher flux cost than Annihilators that are stopped by PD, so you have it a bit backwards there.

Anyhow, small weapons are good enough on the ships that regularly use them that I don't see much onus for changes as drastic as those you're suggesting. Alex has been giving them minor touch-ups recently which I tend to agree with however, so I suppose it's not a wholly irredeemable opinion.

ElPresidente

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
    • View Profile
Re: Possible buff to Low Tech Ships idea
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2021, 12:21:57 AM »

COUNTER-PROPOSAL:

Higher EMP resistance
Faster engine and weapon repairs
Lower supply usage
Logged

Yunru

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: Possible buff to Low Tech Ships idea
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2021, 12:36:49 AM »

I prefer "armour and hull slowly regenerates to 25%" with a side helping of "after battle, repairs up to 25% (before other repairs)."
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5]